I Am No Longer Cleaning My Guns!

[STBear]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Noah_Zark again.

[Emptymag]

I use Weapon Shield.
It's a cleaner, a lubricant, and "protectant".

Everyone has their own favorites.
I hate stinky chemicals and Weapon Shield is way less offensive than anything else I had tried.

A little goes a long way.

[JAKIII]

If I ever put a gun to bed dirty I’d be up all night thinking about it.

[Noah_Zark]

If I ever put a gun to bed dirty I’d be up all night thinking about it.

Old PI habits do die hard, don't they?

Noah

[Walleye Hunter]

I clean my stuff once in a while, it all goes bang when I pull the trigger regardless of what I put through it. Over and out.

[bamboomaster]

It's a matter of using appropriate materials and technique.

For example, on any dirty gun, I first run DRY patches through the chamber(s) and bore to pick up and remove as much DRY schmutz before applying wet patches and smearing all that dry stuff around, making a bigger mess that takes longer. It's similar to why you vacuum or broom clean a dirty floor before mopping - when you mop a floor without first sweeping you distribute a bunch of previously-dry dirt around, requiring more "rinse" mopping. Get rid of the dry stuff first, push two, three, or more dry patches through, one-way, and discard them. They should get progressively less verschmutzt with every dry patch.

Once the dry patches start looking cleaner, THEN use a powder solvent or Cleaner, Lubricant, Protectant (CLP) on a patch to wet the bore. You can skip a wet patch and run a wet brush through, first wetting the brush with a eyedropper, or using the CLP's bottle dropper tip. Then scrub with the brush several passes, THEN clean the brush by means of spraying or dipping in a solvent. In nice weather outside, I'll use spray carb cleaner to clean all the schmutz out of a bore brush, or if indoors, remove the brush from the rod and swish it in a small jar of miserable spirits. Then put the brush away. It's done its job.

Immediately after the wet brush treatment, send through more one-pass DRY patches to get rid of the wet schmutz in the bore. Repeat until the patches get noticeably cleaner.

Following that, make one pass with a patch wetted in your favorite solvent. Think of this as a rinse. Then more DRY patches. NOTE WELL: These dry patches will not be spotlessly clean, but each one should be successively cleaner. Expect to see some bluish tinge from copper. Expect to see spiral tracks from rifling. But the patches should be successively cleaner and cleaner. Just recognize that you'll reach a limit; they will be only so clean.

THEN as a final measure, make one final pass with a patch lightly dampened (NOT sopping) with an effective protectant oil. Rem Oil is NOT one of them. Use either CLP, or better, FP10 or my favorite, Corrosion-X. That's it. Hang it in the rack, put it in the safe. But before shooting it, run a dry patch through it to wipe out the protectant oil residue, and DO NOT be shocked or upset about how dirty that dry patch will be -- it's had days, weeks, or months to work on the microscopic schmutz that's deep in the chatter marks of the rifling, or at the base of the lands, etc. All that dirt means is that the protectant oil DID ITS JOB while the rifle slept in your safe, and you got on with your life.




This is easily answered, but some folks find the answer hard to understand. Most (not all ) blueing is a form of iron oxide, or rust. In fact, there's a process called "rust blueing" where a very light uniform coating of rust is intentionally formed on metal parts of a firearm in a humidity box, and then "carded" off with steel or bronze wool, leaving a duller, darker steel surface. This is repeated a number of times, and each time the steel gets darker and bluer. At some point, the now-blued surface is polished with oil and a coarse linen cloth to brighten the sheen of the blueing.

But that blueing is still nothing more than iron oxide, Fe3O4, or "Iron 4 Oxide." Orange rust, commonly what everyone thinks of when they hear "rust" is "Iron 3 Oxide" or Fe2O3. Both are "rust", iron oxide. So when you wipe down a blued barrel, receiver, or frame with an oily rag, IT IS NOT UNCOMMON to remove a tiny, invisible to the naked eye layer of iron oxide. Even every time. Because that barrel IS rusting in your safe, your basement, the corner of your closet, every minute of the day. The rusting is controlled by the Iron 4 Oxide, or blueing, because "rust does not rust;" it's already rust, whatever form it's in. But this continuous entropic corrosion of the rifle's metal constantly takes place, even if waaaayyyy slowed down by blueing. So every time you wipe the metal, EXPECT TO SEE BROWN. Want to see less? Use a oxygen-blocking preservative like Corrosion-X, and apply with a microfiber cloth or a satiny polyester like a pair of discarded panties.


Actual blueing is still somewhat porous, that's another reason why it keeps rusting as explained above. If you're talking about the "black" blueing, that can either be actual blueing that's applied thicker, or it can be another coating altogether. If it's a technical coating, it is likely not porous, and will tend to "repel" oil to a degree, leaving a discontinuous, "patchy" appearance.

There is one technique that is amazingly effective at applying a uniform coating of oil or oil-based protectant -- a shaving brush or artist's "camel hair" brush. Shaving brushes are expensive, and if you don't shave with shaving soap, just go to the craft section of WalMart, or a Michaels or Hobby Lobby and get some wide "fan" type artist brushes with fine hair. Mine are about 1" wide at the tip, fan-shaped. You can keep the handle length as-made, or trim them to 3'-4" for convenience. If you use more than one oil product, label the brush handles, and ONLY USE ONE PRODUCT per brush.

To use a brush to apply oil or protectant (Corrosion-X, for example), apply three or four DROPS to the bristles, and using the tips of the bristles only, "sweep" the oil onto the metal surface as if you're painting. DO NOT lay the brush down on its side; sweep with the tips. The metal won't look like it's oiled, but when you get the technique right, run a clean finger on the surface and you will see the fingerprints "track" or smear the oil lengthwise. The key is to have patience, and let the oil build up in the brush and on the metal. Even on a new brush, NEVER exceed four drops. As it transfers to the metal, you may need to add another couple drops. If you can see the oil as a thick layer, you're putting too much on. When right, the sheen reflection in the light will tell you it's there. Also, when you're oiling by brush correctly, it may take you 10 mins or more to do a long gun, especially at first. Be patient.




No offense, you're going a bit far off the rails here. Do you have objective evidence that your personal skin oil HAS corroded a firearm? If not, relax a bit and reign in the OCD. Again, no offense. However, if your skin oil HAS caused rusty fingerprints on a firearm (some people do), then just get some inexpensive nitrile gloves to handle the guns when cleaning, and shooting gloves when shooting.



Yes you can get oil in all of those places! Use the artist's brush oiling technique on ventilated ribs and recesses and other details, as described above. Again, use a sweeping or stippling action with just the tips of the bristles.

HTH; try these techniques and report back.

Noah

Extraordinary write-up. Should be flagged as a permanent post...

I found the book "FIGHTING IRON: A Metals Handbook for Arms Collectors" by Art Gogan to be informative too.

Just one other thing for cleaning fanatics, actually a WARNING: extended contact w/ Hoppe's No. 9 will remove nickel plating....

Haven't used it yet, but an estate clean-out a few months ago yielded a few tins of Sperm Oil. The real deal - think of the novel "Moby-Dick" (the whale) by Herman Mellville...

Gotta keep those harpoons (tip of the spear) from rusting.

[DrillNFill]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Noah_Zark again.

Yeah me too- thanks for the tutorial Noah

I also get aggravated that my patches never come out clean, always various shades of gray, oh well
For smokeless powder bores I use Hoppe's 9 to clean and Hoppe's gun oil for lube/protectant.
For black powder/Pyrodex I use Thompson/Center bore cleaner to clean and their "Bore Butter" lube. It was a kit that came with the T/C muzzleloader I bought ages ago and it seems to do a good job.

I realize they're all kinda JV level products, anyone recommend something else to step up my game? I'm almost out of Bore Butter

[Berncly]

It's a matter of using appropriate materials and technique. [...]

Thank you for the great info.
Rep owed.

[Noah_Zark]

Wow! That is a lot to take in! The brush is a great idea, thanks! The corrosion X, is there a specific one for guns or any is fine? Well, I see the gun one but it seems way more expensive per ounce. Am I missing something?

Any Corrosion-X product will work. It works because it contains a oxygen blocker that's effective even if only a few molecules thick. I personally got to know the owner of the company through the S&W Forum; he's a S&W collector. He said that C-X for Guns is essentially the same juice, but packaged for convenience. I was given a half gallon of Corrosion-X Aviation from a friend who has a Piper PA-22 Tri-Pacer and I'm still working on it, but it's available directly from the C-X website, and from Amazon.

So many people say just an oil soaked rag on the barrel and metal, 5w30 is fine, is that not true?

If it works for them, I guess its fine. I've read testimonies and watched too many videos myself, where shooters advocate using motor oil / Mobil 1. It's certainly better than nothing, but it not what I would use. Motor oils, including synthetics, have additive packages to help reduce dirt and carbon deposits (detergents), colloidizing agents (to keep dirt and solids in suspension instead of settling out), anti-sludging agents, rubber seal conditioners, etc. While all that MAY NOT be detrimental to a firearm, I am wary of the possible "unintended consequences" that one or more of those ingredients doesn't play well with a Glock poly frame, for example.

As far as the blueing, all my guns are just that, guns. Nothing fancy, all of them re black on the metal for the most part. Look at an AR barrel, see how it is rough? That's what most of my rifle barrels look like. None are smooth. So, what is that coating and should I still be concerned?

An AR barrel is coated with zinc phosphate, Zn3(PO4)2)(H2O)4. It's a phosphoric acid conversion of the surface of the steel that deposits zinc phosphate crystals:



At a microscopic level as you can see, there's a BUNCH of porosity. This is why ZnPhos is used - it is an incredibly effective sponge for oil. ZnPhos and oil is a common fastener finish where slight corrosion resistance and lubricity are desired. On firearms, particularly military ones, metal is often specified to be finished with ZnPhos and is to be regularly oiled because the oil fills all the nooks and crannies of the wicked high surface area of the ZnPhos and stays there, protecting the metal. IT IS THE NATURE of oiled ZnPhos to have a mottled appearance. It is a FUNCTIONAL, utilitarian, corrosion-resistant finish, NOT the hood of a BMW. What you see is normal. And ZnPhos takes longer to oil if you use a wide fan-type artists brush. On these "rough, black" surfaces as you describe them, I cheat and use a microfiber cloth moistened with Corrosion-X, and use another to wipe off excess.

I do see the rifling marks on the patches and that is what is black. Always dark rifling marks no matter what. I should have been more clear. Generally the patches seem to get cleaner but they are never grey like so many people say they should be. Always show some dirt on them so my concern. I have been using remoil as a lubricant and protector and Hoppes as the cleaner. Maybe I need to step up my game?

I don't like Rem Oil as a protectant. There are lots of videos of unscientific "tests" performed where steel articles coated with Rem Oil always rust first. Corrosion-X is a oil-carried corrosion inhibitor and I use it as a lubricant and protectant, and steel articles coated with it tend resist rust formation MUCH longer. I also use Weapon Shield as a lubricant, and it has some corrosion resistance properties as well. For a cleaner, I mostly use G96 Gun Treatment or CLP, and for stubborn bore deposits I use Copper Solvent formula Hoppes. But I seldom use Hoppes because either G96 or CLP does for most of my cleaning needs, including the bore. The last "oiled" patch through a bore is moistened with Corrosion-X.

Also, what product do you use to lubricate parts? Then you spray protectant over that?

As mentioned, Corrosion-X is a oil-carried corrosion inhibitor and I use it as a lubricant and protectant, all-in-one. It is particularly useful as a lubricant on AR bolts, because while the bolt and carrier get full of carbon, when treated with Corrosion-X the carbon doesn't seem to get all "baked on" as much. I also use Weapon Shield on AR bolts with almost as good results. Mostly I use Weapon Shield oil for axis pins, pivots, ODs of pistol barrels, etc. For handgun slide rails, pistol barrel cam surfaces, or M1 Rifle bolt lugs, etc., I use Weapon Shield grease. It's very low viscosity and doesn't cause functionality problems at freezing or sub-freezing temperatures of northern PA winters.


In closing, I mean no offense; IMO you need to back away from You Tube a bit. Everyone has their own favorite firearm care procedures and favorite products. I am no exception, but I've used these techniques and products for years if not decades. I've used Corrosion-X for 20+ years, Weapon Shield for 12+ years, for example. When reloading, my case resizing lubricant is a 50:50 mix of STP and Marvel Mystery Oil applied to an uninked stamp pad upon which I roll the cases. Exceptionally slick and effective. I'm using the same pint bottle that I mixed in 1975.

Also keep in mind that many of the professional "gun guy" You Tubers also endorse products for compensation / sponsorship. Those videos are effectively infomercials.

HTH,

Noah

[Hawk]

When reloading, my case resizing lubricant is a 50:50 mix of STP and Marvel Mystery Oil applied to an uninked stamp pad upon which I roll the cases. Exceptionally slick and effective. I'm using the same pint bottle that I mixed in 1975.



HTH,

Noah

Off topic a little, but I'm curious.

What do you do with the oil coating on the cases after resizing? Do you use a progressive press? If so, do you remove the oil after the resize stage or after the end of reloading process?

Hawk,