New carry gun(I built)

[Xringshooter]

I certainly would not want to be the test case for carrying that in Philly. No ser.no. Not in PSP ROS database. No proof of ownership. And whatever else a cop can think of.

I'd carry a copy of this. I do as I often carry a pistol I ought under my C&R , which some PSP says they don't recognize as legal.

Attachment 125197

Abner13 -Could you tell us where it can be found? I'd like to download it also and print it out. It's probably not a bad idea nowadays for people who carry regularly (or irregularly) to have this handy.

[knight0334]

Abner13 -Could you tell us where it can be found? I'd like to download it also and print it out. It's probably not a bad idea nowadays for people who carry regularly (or irregularly) to have this handy.

I know it is in the MPOETC police training thing.

[abner13]

It's posted as a pic attachment. Just highlight/copy and send to your phone or printer.

[t1066]

Abner13 -Could you tell us where it can be found? I'd like to download it also and print it out. It's probably not a bad idea nowadays for people who carry regularly (or irregularly) to have this handy.

It is MPOETC Newsletter Volume 34, Issue 4, December 2011 . However, they don't appear to be hosting anything older than 2016 on their web page anymore. I checked archive.org and I found the page it was listed on, but the actual document wasn't archived. You can probably request a copy through your local library.

[JenniferG]

Here's the text of the aforementioned speech that can be copied and pasted into any word processing software and then printed.

Firearm Record of Sale System and Law Enforcement
By Trooper Paul Anderson, PSP
Law enforcement officers are often faced with the challenge of determining if a subject’s firearm does, in fact, belong to them. This information is not as easily obtained as one might think. The firearm information that is available to Pennsylvania (PA) law enforcement entities through CLEAN – FSADM (firearm records) is based on information provided by licensed firearm dealers in Pennsylvania, for legal sales and transfers of handguns in this state. This information is provided to the Pennsylvania State Police (PSP) through the submission of the SP4-113 Application/Record of Sale (ROS), which is statutorily mandated to be completed for the legal sale or transfer of a handgun. Once received by PSP, the ROS data is entered into the system and used for several reasons to include when attempting to return a firearm to its lawful owner.

The biggest misconception about the ROS information is that it is a registry of all firearms. This is not the case. PA statute prohibits maintenance of a firearms registry. Further, the data housed in the ROS database does not include long guns, firearms that are brought into the state, and certain exempted transfers of handguns between individuals as stated below.

As an example, if a subject moves into PA from another state and he brings firearms with him, these firearms and the corresponding information would not be in the ROS database. Only if the subject transfers a firearm while in PA, and a ROS is completed, is the information
then contained in the ROS database.

Transfers of handguns between spouses, parent and child or grandparent and grandchild do not require a ROS form to be completed. If a ROS form is not completed and is not provided to PSP, no information pertaining to that transfer will be available through an FS ADM query.

Many in law enforcement query a subject’s firearm against the ROS system and confiscate it if the subject’s name is not associated with the firearm. The confiscation of a firearm should never be solely based on a negative response to a firearm records query. The totality of circumstances to include your department’s policies should be taken into consideration when making a determination of whether confiscation is appropriate.

It should also be noted that PA law provides for loaning a firearm to an individual who has a license to carry a firearm issued in PA (see 18 Pa. C.S. §6115). Thus in this circumstance, a subject who has a valid license to carry issued in PA can legally carry a handgun even if they
do not own it.

Should you have any questions concerning this information please contact
Trooper Paul K. Anderson, Supervisor,
Firearm Administrative Section, at 717-
346-3091.

[Xringshooter]

Thanks to all who responded.

[DavidH]

I wouldn’t worry about having an explanation of anything. It’s not for any person to PROVE their innocence! And police have no right to “make sure” a firearm being carried by a person belongs to them, for no other reason than carrying it! Also, the PA Supreme Court has already ruled that carrying a firearm is NOT a reason to stop someone. So if you happen to be harassed in this way, go with the flow...then enjoy the $25K-$50K settlement the city will end up paying you in the lawsuit for their officer’s actions

[Xringshooter]

I wouldn’t worry about having an explanation of anything. It’s not for any person to PROVE their innocence! And police have no right to “make sure” a firearm being carried by a person belongs to them, for no other reason than carrying it! Also, the PA Supreme Court has already ruled that carrying a firearm is NOT a reason to stop someone. So if you happen to be harassed in this way, go with the flow...then enjoy the $25K-$50K settlement the city will end up paying you in the lawsuit for their officer’s actions

Sorry, but your naivete is showing. My comments following yours.

"It’s not for any person to PROVE their innocence!"
Not anymore, even though it is supposed to be "You're innocent until proven guilty" It's not that way anymore with firearms, especially in cities like Philadelphia.


"And police have no right to “make sure” a firearm being carried by a person belongs to them, for no other reason than carrying it!"
They may have no right to do what they do but they do it anyway, the laws be damned. Until vast swaths of police and police higher ups are terminated due to their actions, nothing will change their mindset or the mindset of their superiors and the police unions.

"Also, the the PA Supreme Court has already ruled that carrying a firearm is NOT a reason to stop someone."
That is factually correct, but that has never stopped the police from doing what they want to do, they don't seem to care about any consequences and again, they will not change unless something extremely hurtful happens to the hierarchy because of something a street cop did/does.

"So if you happen to be harassed in this way, go with the flow...then enjoy the $25K-$50K settlement the city will end up paying you in the lawsuit for their officer’s actions"
LOL, Real easy to say that on a forum. I am sure there are more than a few people on this forum that can give you real life experiences and the "flow" is not easy to go with. Then getting the settlement. Good luck with that. One, you have to hire a good firearms law attorney who knows the pertinent PA statutes and two, the law firm will get the majority of any settlement that MIGHT be handed down. A liberal judge may even say that, Yes, you were wronged and we will tell the PD that they have to clean up their act and we will make them issue a public apology and MAYBE have them pay your attorney fees. And then when they drag their feet, you have to start another lawsuit to get anything from the first one. Again good luck with that.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Sorry, but your naivete is showing. My comments following yours.

"It’s not for any person to PROVE their innocence!"
Not anymore, even though it is supposed to be "You're innocent until proven guilty" It's not that way anymore with firearms, especially in cities like Philadelphia.


"And police have no right to “make sure” a firearm being carried by a person belongs to them, for no other reason than carrying it!"
They may have no right to do what they do but they do it anyway, the laws be damned. Until vast swaths of police and police higher ups are terminated due to their actions, nothing will change their mindset or the mindset of their superiors and the police unions.

"Also, the the PA Supreme Court has already ruled that carrying a firearm is NOT a reason to stop someone."
That is factually correct, but that has never stopped the police from doing what they want to do, they don't seem to care about any consequences and again, they will not change unless something extremely hurtful happens to the hierarchy because of something a street cop did/does.

"So if you happen to be harassed in this way, go with the flow...then enjoy the $25K-$50K settlement the city will end up paying you in the lawsuit for their officer’s actions"
LOL, Real easy to say that on a forum. I am sure there are more than a few people on this forum that can give you real life experiences and the "flow" is not easy to go with. Then getting the settlement. Good luck with that. One, you have to hire a good firearms law attorney who knows the pertinent PA statutes and two, the law firm will get the majority of any settlement that MIGHT be handed down. A liberal judge may even say that, Yes, you were wronged and we will tell the PD that they have to clean up their act and we will make them issue a public apology and MAYBE have them pay your attorney fees. And then when they drag their feet, you have to start another lawsuit to get anything from the first one. Again good luck with that.

Although you're not wrong, fighting the oppression of government is the eternal cross every citizen must bear. Be that oppression come from the police, a judge, a township supervisor, or local street sweeper.

[Xringshooter]

Although you're not wrong, fighting the oppression of government is the eternal cross every citizen must bear. Be that oppression come from the police, a judge, a township supervisor, or local street sweeper.

I agree with your statement but in too many cases the fight was won but the people/organizations who lost didn't change their policies at all.