Annual Harrisburg Rally - June 8, 2020

[longcall911]

Is this your 1st day on the internet?

A big part to winning this fight is about perception and the gun community of which I am apart of fails especially at this on all levels from all org's. There are all different types of gun owners out there some with views drastically different then our own and like it not we need them because there is strength in large numbers which is something we need to be able to turn out.

I don't think this flyer is partially over the top but it could be a shit load better.

Yes, perhaps it could be better. Then again, most things in life could be improved... :-)

My only point is that sitting around bitching about it doesn't accomplish much of anything. If the guys here want a better flyer, they should consider doing one. Get together, develop a message and hire a graphics designer to produce the artwork. Even if that doesn't happen this year, do it for next year and send it to Metcalfe's office for his consideration.

BTW: I agree that we need those gun owners with different views. But I have to say, it am totally disgusted with their lack of action and I don't think that a nice, "please come to h-burg" flyer that is not political or does not call out socialism is going to motivate them. I believe that it is totally on us, the activists, the small minority of those willing to get up off our asses and work, to fight this battle for the preservation of our rights. I want as many as possible in h-burg, but personally, I don't believe a flyer will motivate the unmotivatable. The rest of us are already motivated. For us, the flyer just outlines this year's theme and gives this year's date.

[Emptymag]

No one is offending me, personally. I did not design it.

However, compared to last year's, this is far more simple and to the point.

A few asked "what does this have to so with socialism?" Really? It is the socialists who are trying to take your guns. Who else are fighting? I actually like it. But then again, at 18 yrs old (1968) I joined the army to kill-commies. And, by the way, it is just a flyer. I think folks are being overly critical. The point is that it is time to stand our ground.

"The point" you made in the last sentence is ten thousand times better than the message that image and headline portrays.

No, it is not produced by the Lehigh Valley Tea Party.

This is the official flyer from Rep Metcalfe's office. In defense of that office, I have to say that I can't believe all the bitching and complaining about a flyer. I also can't believe that people want to take politics out of it, and others want to take socialism out of it. This is totally bizarre to me. Politics and socialism are the threat! But hey, let's not mention that?

Don't like the flyer? Make your own. It doesn't matter. What matters is getting people there. Got a better way? Go for it. Got a better flyer? Go for it. How many people will you (not you personally Bern) motivate to come? Will you go to local gun clubs and get word out? Will you distribute this (or your own) flyer at gun stores?

IMO, there is so much more important stuff to be discussing and *doing* than complaining about a few words on a flyer.

Actually, random people shouldn't be "making flyers" - it should be coming from a centralized point - the organizers.
This is what happens when people "make their own flyers".

And no, I will tell people about the rally, but I would not hand that flyer out anywhere.
If "what matters" is getting people there, then the poor flyer should be scrapped.

One of the most basic concepts in advertising in regards to the contents of an advertisement is this: EVERY element should be there for a REASON - if it's not helping to convey the message, it's hurting."

The "Smoking gun" is a perfect example.
People with no design background may not see the "issue" - they were just looking around for a picture of a GUN to add to the flyer. Gun guys will give a standing ovation for any flyer that has a gun in it. That's just the way it is.
It's the same way if I whip up a shitty logo for a lawn care guy - type his name in any font and throw a lawnmower or blade of grass in it, and "WOW! THAT'S AWESOME!" (when it's not)
Most people don't really know what's good or bad about design - because that isn't their skill.

I don't think there is a Metcalfe flyer direct link. I'm not sure there ever is or was. His office prints thousands, but I don't know that there is a digital space on his page for the flyer. He depends on the rest of us (as in the whole community) to distribute it digitally. It will be on the rally website and facebook page soon enough. Other volunteers manage those, so I can't say when.

I hope he reconsiders posting that particular flyer online.

Yes, perhaps it could be better. Then again, most things in life could be improved... :-)

My only point is that sitting around bitching about it doesn't accomplish much of anything. If the guys here want a better flyer, they should consider doing one. Get together, develop a message and hire a graphics designer to produce the artwork. Even if that doesn't happen this year, do it for next year and send it to Metcalfe's office for his consideration.

BTW: I agree that we need those gun owners with different views. But I have to say, it am totally disgusted with their lack of action and I don't think that a nice, "please come to h-burg" flyer that is not political or does not call out socialism is going to motivate them. I believe that it is totally on us, the activists, the small minority of those willing to get up off our asses and work, to fight this battle for the preservation of our rights. I want as many as possible in h-burg, but personally, I don't believe a flyer will motivate the unmotivatable. The rest of us are already motivated. For us, the flyer just outlines this year's theme and gives this year's date.

Bitching about it is a good thing, if it prompts a positive change in the design.
The hiring of a graphic designer should have been done FIRST, not AFTER a weak design is out into circulation.

I try to stay out of these debates about advertising, the way other professionals likely avoid discussions about their skill set when it's clear that "the mob" knows not what they speak of, and are unwilling to accept advice.

I'm in the process of getting together some resources to try to assist with pro 2A graphics. Too late to do much for this rally in terms of helping the official organizers, but maybe I can in some other way.
We shall see. It's been a while since I've DONE design work - it's still in my head, but the technical/computer skills are going to need some brushing up on.
I may even regret this. LOL

[Hodgie]

Yes, perhaps it could be better. Then again, most things in life could be improved... :-)

My only point is that sitting around bitching about it doesn't accomplish much of anything. If the guys here want a better flyer, they should consider doing one. Get together, develop a message and hire a graphics designer to produce the artwork. Even if that doesn't happen this year, do it for next year and send it to Metcalfe's office for his consideration.

BTW: I agree that we need those gun owners with different views. But I have to say, it am totally disgusted with their lack of action and I don't think that a nice, "please come to h-burg" flyer that is not political or does not call out socialism is going to motivate them. I believe that it is totally on us, the activists, the small minority of those willing to get up off our asses and work, to fight this battle for the preservation of our rights. I want as many as possible in h-burg, but personally, I don't believe a flyer will motivate the unmotivatable. The rest of us are already motivated. For us, the flyer just outlines this year's theme and gives this year's date.

Are they even being reached out too? If so if they are not coming out then maybe they are not being provided the proper message. We live in the day and age of identity politics where many wear their cause on their sleeves and that statement applies for a shit ton of people on this site so yes there may need to be multiple flyers made or perhaps one that brings us all together on this one occasion for one reason under one banner. One tiny group of people is not going to keep the rights of everyone from being trampled on so that mentality has to be changed right now. If VA united before the election like this did this past rally there would have been no need for the rally.

Here is a direct example of exactly what I am talking about.
http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=356738

[R L Suehr]

The smoking gun next to the stand your ground against socialism is a bit over the top, when you consider we have called even moderate republians "socialist" recently. That's the off putting part mainly for anyone that's a gun owner that isn't a Conservative. Unfortunately we've thrown the socialist word around to much and diluted it's meaning, just like Nazi from the other side. It'll be associated that way and we need to start appealing more to the less Conservative side of the gun owning community IMHO.

[Hodgie]

The smoking gun next to the stand your ground against socialism is a bit over the top, when you consider we have called even moderate republians "socialist" recently. That's the off putting part mainly for anyone that's a gun owner that isn't a Conservative. Unfortunately we've thrown the socialist word around to much and diluted it's meaning, just like Nazi from the other side. It'll be associated that way and we need to start appealing more to the less Conservative side of the gun owning community IMHO.

So what your saying is bringing back "Kill a commie for mommy" T-shirts isn't a great idea?

[longcall911]

"The point" you made in the last sentence is ten thousand times better than the message that image and headline portrays.
.
.
.
I'm in the process of getting together some resources to try to assist with pro 2A graphics. Too late to do much for this rally in terms of helping the official organizers, but maybe I can in some other way.
We shall see. It's been a while since I've DONE design work - it's still in my head, but the technical/computer skills are going to need some brushing up on.
I may even regret this. LOL

Great. if you, or anyone else, has talent and time then do it. I agree that one flyer is better than a few different ones, but if not liking the one we have stops someone from distributing it, I say by all means make one that you'll distribute.

I think that people may have a bit of a misconception about this rally and its organization. Surely, we don't have some professional, well-paid, corporate team out there doing this rally. It is really just Metcalfe and probably some limited staff. I suspect that there are laws on how much his office can do. What they can't, it seems some volunteers tend to pick up.

So, the expectation of some, seems to be out of line with reality. If folks here can produce a better product, get involved. Produce a quality draft and submit it for next year.

[longcall911]

Are they even being reached out too? If so if they are not coming out then maybe they are not being provided the proper message.

I think the answer is a definite, "yes, some have tried reaching out, but no the target audience is not being reached". However, I don't think that the message is the sole reason. I believe that it is one of many. The biggest reason though (IMO) is that we expect those others to come to us. They don't and won't, regardless of the message. The fact is, we must go to them.

Imagine standing at one end of a football field and hollering to 5 guys at the other end who don't know you, "hey come here". They are most likely going to stay put. Now imagine going to them, joining the conversation, and then after a while, asking them to walk to the other end of field were you were previously. They are likely to go with you, but now, the message of why we're going plays an important role.

I speak from direct experience. The unmotivated will not get motivated by any number of flyers, or the best message in the world. To motivate them, we must go to them, win them over, and ask them to follow our lead. That's when the message becomes most important.

[ar15_shooter]

I want to further emphasize that I am thankful there are people putting their time and energy into organizing this rally and making the flyer. I know it's easy for me to throw stones when I'm not the one putting in volunteer time making it. I'm only providing my honest feedback to try to help.

My thoughts are that no one is going to be "convinced" to come to the rally by seeing a flyer. If someone isn't inclined to come, no flyer will change their mind. I think a flyer serves to inform people who ARE inclined to come, but may not know about it. In that respect a flyer should be simple and to the point. Tell people there's a rally supporting the 2A/Article 1 Section 21, it's important, where, and when. Supporting information about WHY it's important can be provided either on a website (linked by QR code for example) or in unobtrusive text on the flyer.
I really think if someone can't tell what the flyer is about at first glance they will probably just ignore it. I personally don't think it's clear at first glance what the flyer is for.

[Justin///M]

I want to further emphasize that I am thankful there are people putting their time and energy into organizing this rally and making the flyer. I know it's easy for me to throw stones when I'm not the one putting in volunteer time making it. I'm only providing my honest feedback to try to help.

My thoughts are that no one is going to be "convinced" to come to the rally by seeing a flyer. If someone isn't inclined to come, no flyer will change their mind. I think a flyer serves to inform people who ARE inclined to come, but may not know about it. In that respect a flyer should be simple and to the point. Tell people there's a rally supporting the 2A/Article 1 Section 21, it's important, where, and when. Supporting information about WHY it's important can be provided either on a website (linked by QR code for example) or in unobtrusive text on the flyer.
I really think if someone can't tell what the flyer is about at first glance they will probably just ignore it. I personally don't think it's clear at first glance what the flyer is for.

The main message is standing your ground against socialism. It's the bold headline.

Most people will stop reading after that.

Can anyone point to any evidence that any of the anti gun people in Harrisburg are avowed socialists?

[Hodgie]

I want to further emphasize that I am thankful there are people putting their time and energy into organizing this rally and making the flyer. I know it's easy for me to throw stones when I'm not the one putting in volunteer time making it. I'm only providing my honest feedback to try to help.

My thoughts are that no one is going to be "convinced" to come to the rally be seeing a flyer. If someone isn't inclined to come, no flyer will change their mind. I think a flyer serves to inform people who ARE inclined to come, but may not know about it. In that respect a flyer should be simple and to the point. Tell people there's a rally supporting the 2A/Article 1 Section 21, it's important, where, and when. Supporting information about WHY it's important can be provided either on a website (linked by QR code for example) or in unobtrusive text on the flyer.
I really think if someone can't tell what the flyer is about at first glance they will probably just ignore it.

A good thing would be to list all the current anti bills that are in, like the elimination of stand our ground. There's lots of people out their concealed carrying or have a single hand gun for personal defense that might be interested in knowing that and making sure it's squashed.