Results 1 to 10 of 64
Thread: Illegal reference check?
-
December 12th, 2019, 06:13 AM #1Junior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
- Location
-
Mohrsville,
Pennsylvania
(Berks County) - Posts
- 19
- Rep Power
- 0
Illegal reference check?
Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm not sure if I should post this here or the Law & Politics section.
Quick background, I live in Berks and have my LTCF, easy in-and-out, 5 minutes, no references required.
On Monday a friend of mine living in Pike County submitted his application for a LTCF. Not only did he have to provide references(which I was more than happy to be), they also required him to sign two other forms.
Today, I received a letter in the mail from the Pike County sheriff's department with a questionnaire about the applicant, for a "pistol permit" that I need to fill out and return within 10 days.
1. There's no such thing as a "pistol permit."
2. Is it legal for them to have him sign two additional forms, in addition to the LTCF application?
3. Is it legal for them to contact me, via mail to request additional information, which I must also sign and return?
How is any of this legal?
-
December 12th, 2019, 06:34 AM #2Grand Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
-
Southwest,
Pennsylvania
(Washington County) - Posts
- 1,942
- Rep Power
- 21474853
Re: Illegal reference check?
The sheriff is reqiured to "conduct an investigation" to determine if your friend should be issued a LTCF. Unfortunately, in accordance with the character clause, this investigation can also include other people's opinions of your character. This includes person's whom are your references, and also anyone else who may be aware you have applied and may disapprove, for any reason.
It is left to the sheriff's discression whether or not any allegations against your character are credible. This is why it is incorrect to refer to PA as a "Shall Issue" state. You may be denied your LTCF, despite never being convicted of a prohibiting offense. Of course, you may also appeal this denial, and may indeed prevail.
PS: I am unaware of what other papers your friend may have signed.
-
December 12th, 2019, 06:58 AM #3Junior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
- Location
-
Mohrsville,
Pennsylvania
(Berks County) - Posts
- 19
- Rep Power
- 0
Re: Illegal reference check?
I'm pretty sure Philly tried to pull the same stunt, and the courts said it was illegal.
https://blog.princelaw.com/2014/11/1...-applications/
I don't know how to post a screen shot. Here is the application packet.
https://www.pikepa.org/Sheriffs/LTCApp.pdf
-
December 12th, 2019, 06:59 AM #4Grand Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
-
Southwest,
Pennsylvania
(Washington County) - Posts
- 1,942
- Rep Power
- 21474853
Re: Illegal reference check?
Relevant code;
§ 6109. Licenses.
(d) Sheriff to conduct investigation.--The sheriff to whom the application is made shall:
(1) investigate the applicant's record of criminal conviction;
(2) investigate whether or not the applicant is under indictment for or has ever been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment exceeding one year;
(3)
investigate whether the applicant's character and reputation are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety;
(4) investigate whether the applicant would be precluded from receiving a license under subsection (e)(1) or section 6105(h) (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms); and
(5) conduct a criminal background, juvenile delinquency and mental health check following the procedures set forth in section 6111 (relating to sale or transfer of firearms), receive a unique approval number for that inquiry and record the date and number on the application.
-
December 12th, 2019, 07:02 AM #5
Re: Illegal reference check?
MY guess is one of the papers was a release to allow him to contact other people as part of the investigation. I say that because when I went to renew my license in Juniata county 2 years ago, they had added this form.
I handed my renewal form in, as well as that 2nd paper back in. 2nd paper was left blank. She handed it back to me and said, politely, that I had forgotten to fill it out. I replied, that No, I had not forgotten, that the form was illegal, the only documentation that was legally allowed to be requested was the 1 page standard form provided by PSP, and I would not be filling out anything in violation of the law. There was some chatter in the back office that I couldn't overhear, but I received by LTCF a few minutes later, after they had done the PICS check.
marinville statement is correct, however that part of the law also conflicts with the fact that disclosure of LTCF information is prohibited and very illegal. You know know you're friend is obtaining a LTCF.
1. Correct.
2. No.
3. No.
Your friend should contact a gun rights lawyer."Cives Arma Ferant"
"I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001
-
December 12th, 2019, 07:05 AM #6Grand Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2017
- Location
-
New Tripoli,
Pennsylvania
(Lehigh County) - Posts
- 2,372
- Rep Power
- 21474845
Re: Illegal reference check?
Someone posted recently
LTCF Renewal Experience Today, No References Needed
http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=354810
-
December 12th, 2019, 07:26 AM #7Junior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
- Location
-
Mohrsville,
Pennsylvania
(Berks County) - Posts
- 19
- Rep Power
- 0
-
December 12th, 2019, 07:46 AM #8Junior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
- Location
-
Mohrsville,
Pennsylvania
(Berks County) - Posts
- 19
- Rep Power
- 0
Re: Illegal reference check?
He also mentioned that they had some sort of local law for the LTCF application, because they are part of the "Tri-State" area between NY and NJ.
I've never heard of this, but I'd be willing to bet it's also illegal under preemption?
-
December 12th, 2019, 09:44 AM #9Super Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
- Location
-
Honesdale,
Pennsylvania
(Wayne County) - Posts
- 694
- Rep Power
- 2990182
Re: Illegal reference check?
Sheriff Mark Steelman does this in neighboring Wayne County PA too. His office mails a letter to both your references asking a number of questions about you. You can be denied if any answers are not up to his satisfaction.
-
December 12th, 2019, 10:07 AM #10Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Location
-
Dauphin County,
Pennsylvania
(Dauphin County) - Posts
- 349
- Rep Power
- 3509074
Similar Threads
-
Lawyer: Character reference checks illegal for license-to-carry applications
By Exbiker in forum PennsylvaniaReplies: 20Last Post: April 29th, 2013, 12:29 PM -
LTCF reference check data point
By markshere2 in forum GeneralReplies: 18Last Post: July 29th, 2009, 10:28 PM -
Reference check for LTCF application
By Zef_66 in forum GeneralReplies: 13Last Post: September 5th, 2008, 04:21 PM
Bookmarks