Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Bechtelsville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: Illegal reference check?

    A number of violations with that application, especially when they are imposing criteria beyond that which found in the statue and PSP form, and when Section 6109(c) is explicit that only the PSP can promulgate the form for an LTCF and only that form needs to be submitted. Are they sending any of the information un-enveloped (i.e. postcards)?
    Joshua Prince, Esq. - Firearms Industry Consulting Group - www.PaFirearmsLawyer.com

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Oakland Mills, Pennsylvania
    (Juniata County)
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    Default Re: Illegal reference check?

    Quote Originally Posted by 556FMJ View Post
    He also mentioned that they had some sort of local law for the LTCF application, because they are part of the "Tri-State" area between NY and NJ.

    I've never heard of this, but I'd be willing to bet it's also illegal under preemption?
    Yes. Please see SigforLife's questions. You know, because you spoke his name, and like bettlejuice he appeared.


    And he absolutely should make waves. What happened is a big deal.

    https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/L...1.011.000..HTM


    Confidentiality.--All information provided by the potential purchaser, transferee or applicant, including, but not limited to, the potential purchaser, transferee or applicant's name or identity, furnished by a potential purchaser or transferee under this section or any applicant for a license to carry a firearm as provided by section 6109 shall be confidential and not subject to public disclosure. In addition to any other sanction or penalty imposed by this chapter, any person, licensed dealer, State or local governmental agency or department that violates this subsection shall be liable in civil damages in the amount of $1,000 per occurrence or three times the actual damages incurred as a result of the violation, whichever is greater, as well as reasonable attorney fees.


    The courts have ruled just having a sign in sheet where people can see it, or calling out a persons name where others can hear it violates the law.


    ****

    In addition, I would make a strong argument that a case for official oppression under color of law, and a federal civil rights claim exists, has his actions are illegal, but he is using his position of authority to suppress people's willingness to exercise a fundamental right. You don't tolerate things like this. You slap it down hard, and make sure you burn their hand, that way they don't think they can get away with more.
    "Cives Arma Ferant"

    "I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
    Age
    47
    Posts
    18,903
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    21474868

    Default Re: Illegal reference check?

    The requirement of the additional forms violates PA law.

    The sheriff contacting references is legal as a part of his/her investigation to an applicants character, however the sheriff should not disclose why he/she is questioning the reference person about the applicant. ...however, the fact that you list them may absolve the sheriff of that non-disclosure aspect - could be construed to be consent on the part of the applicant.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Mohrsville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Posts
    19
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    0

    Default Re: Illegal reference check?

    Quote Originally Posted by SigForLife View Post
    A number of violations with that application, especially when they are imposing criteria beyond that which found in the statue and PSP form, and when Section 6109(c) is explicit that only the PSP can promulgate the form for an LTCF and only that form needs to be submitted. Are they sending any of the information un-enveloped (i.e. postcards)?
    No, it was in an envelope. I'd be more than happy to provide you a copy of the form they sent me.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Bechtelsville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Posts
    828
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    11139109

    Default Re: Illegal reference check?

    I think there may be some changes next week or soon thereafter with the Pike Co Sheriff application process, but only time will tell
    Joshua Prince, Esq. - Firearms Industry Consulting Group - www.PaFirearmsLawyer.com

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
    Age
    48
    Posts
    11,208
    Rep Power
    21474860

    Default Re: Illegal reference check?

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    ...however, the fact that you list them may absolve the sheriff of that non-disclosure aspect - could be construed to be consent on the part of the applicant.
    Statute imposes the non-disclosure requirement. My feeling or statements on the matter are irrelevant. There's no exception for "unless the person says they don't mind."
    Attention NRA Life and voting members - LPRGCFRANK running for NRA board of directors

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Mohrsville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Illegal reference check?

    Quote Originally Posted by PAMedic=F|A= View Post
    Yes. Please see SigforLife's questions. You know, because you spoke his name, and like bettlejuice he appeared.


    And he absolutely should make waves. What happened is a big deal.

    https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/L...1.011.000..HTM


    Confidentiality.--All information provided by the potential purchaser, transferee or applicant, including, but not limited to, the potential purchaser, transferee or applicant's name or identity, furnished by a potential purchaser or transferee under this section or any applicant for a license to carry a firearm as provided by section 6109 shall be confidential and not subject to public disclosure. In addition to any other sanction or penalty imposed by this chapter, any person, licensed dealer, State or local governmental agency or department that violates this subsection shall be liable in civil damages in the amount of $1,000 per occurrence or three times the actual damages incurred as a result of the violation, whichever is greater, as well as reasonable attorney fees.


    The courts have ruled just having a sign in sheet where people can see it, or calling out a persons name where others can hear it violates the law.


    ****

    In addition, I would make a strong argument that a case for official oppression under color of law, and a federal civil rights claim exists, has his actions are illegal, but he is using his position of authority to suppress people's willingness to exercise a fundamental right. You don't tolerate things like this. You slap it down hard, and make sure you burn their hand, that way they don't think they can get away with more.
    He's just happy to be in PA. He just wants to get his LTCF. I don't want to cause him any issues by not filling out the form. So I will.

    Me on the other hand, I'm thankful to live in the county that's home to the best Sheriff and best gun rights lawyer in the commonwealth. I'm pissed and absolutely willing to make waves

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Mohrsville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Posts
    19
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    0

    Default Re: Illegal reference check?

    Quote Originally Posted by SigForLife View Post
    I think there may be some changes next week or soon thereafter with the Pike Co Sheriff application process, but only time will tell
    I didn't expect you to actually respond to my post. Thank you very much for everything that you do.

    Take these guys behind the woodshed.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    3,136
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    21474849

    Default Re: Illegal reference check?

    Quote Originally Posted by 556FMJ View Post
    I didn't expect you to actually respond to my post. Thank you very much for everything that you do.

    Take these guys behind the woodshed.
    You may want to send Sig a private message and coordinate your response with him for maximum effect.
    Please post any significant updates to this thread.
    Welcome, and thanks for the info.
    Bern-
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    3,136
    Rep Power
    21474849

    Default Re: Illegal reference check?

    Quote Originally Posted by 556FMJ View Post
    Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm not sure if I should post this here or the Law & Politics section.
    When in doubt, you can always post stuff to the 'General' section which gets the most traffic besides the 'Lounge'.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

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