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  1. #91
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    Default Re: Purple Paint Law In PA. indicating No Tresspassing / Hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosinshooter762 View Post
    Maybe you are right that we are obligated to pay a chunk a change for a boundary survey on all land that we enter. So I pay for this survey of my friends property, and the neighbor doesn’t believe it was done by a Professional Surveyor. Mr. and Mrs. Anti Gun claims I placed the survey markings on their property rather than it being professionally done and that it actually doesn’t mark the boundary of the property. As far as online records, information on the internet is not always correct, and such information has to be properly interpreted. How are the police going to handle this dispute between a neighbor and the property owners guest about the boundary line, and whether this neighbor had the right to place the purple paints where they did? The police are not surveyors and they didn’t witness the survey.

    Property disputes happen a lot. It is naive to think that this purple paint law won’t lead to neighbor disputes.
    For fucks sake, are just trying to be difficult or do you not under stand? No one said that YOU have to have a survey done on every property that you wish to enter. Just ask the OWNER for permission, it is their responsibility to have their property surveyed. Purple paint to mark property against trespassing and a legal survey are two entirely different things. If you wish to have a lot surveyed that you do not own you will need permission as you DO NOT OWN THE LAND. You also do not have the authority to place any property markers UNLESS you are a licensed Surveyor.

    When a property is surveyed by a licensed surveyor markers are placed property corners and along points along the property lines( when necessary). The nice thing about a survey is that it shows the line between two adjoining properties. So when a neighbor has a survey done the folks that have the property next to them gets a FREE property survey along that line whether they like it of not.

    As far as the online property information, with GPS and satellite survey capabilities the information is very seldom incorrect .

    What the neighbor /Mr. Mrs. Anti gun THINK is irrelevant.
    If some one does not think that the property is correctly marked then they can bring the matter up in court. That is what the police are going to tell the parties involved as property line disputes are a civil matter that the police have no authority in. So unless the party that THINKS some one is trespassing cannot provide proof that someone is on their property illegally they have no argument. That is not to say that IF and WHEN they can show proof of trespass that the police cannot remove the trespasser. When proof has been established they can charge the offender with trespass.

    If the neighbor is going to be so petty to say that you placed a foot across the line the apologize and take a step back and continue on your way. If you have wandered a hundred yards on to his property then you are at fault.
    We the people love our country so let the government fear us.

  2. #92
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    Default Re: Purple Paint Law In PA. indicating No Tresspassing / Hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosinshooter762 View Post
    We don’t own most of the earths surface, and yet we enter a lot of property every day. Most businesses, friends, employers and others have never explicitly told us that we are permitted to enter or remain on their land, and yet there we are eating dinner with friends, shopping, or doing any other myriad of things the property of others. My neighbor never explicitly told me that I am permitted to knock on his door, or trim his tree that hangs over the property line. There is a body of case law in every state about what the reasonable expectations of owners, and entrants are.
    Anyone who opens a business for the purpose of retail transactions or legal commerce gives "implied consent" for you to enter and remain on their property as long as you follow their rules. No firearms, No shirt no shoes no service, No Smoking, No vulgar language, No offensive logos on Tee shirts, No smelly hippies, No soliciting etc. As long as they do not violate laws on protected classes of people they can make any rules they wish.

    You do not need your neighbors explicit consent to trim branches that over hang your property. As long as it does not permanently harm the tree/shrub/plant.

    If your neighbor has a door bell on the front of his house he has given implied consent IF he has not posted his property with a No soliciting sign or with the proper no trespassing notification.

    Those are a few of the bodies of case law.
    We the people love our country so let the government fear us.

  3. #93
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    Default Re: Purple Paint Law In PA. indicating No Tresspassing / Hunting.

    Bought a new row home in Philly when first married. New homes get deluged with salespeople looking to sell you additionals and improvements, such as storm windows and doors, magazine subscriptions, what-not.

    I made up a notice posted above the door bell button:

    TO ALL UNINVITED SALESMEN AND SOLICITORS. YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE. DISPLAY YOUR INTELLIGENCE AND MOVE ON.

    One day came an insistent knocking on the door. I opened it to be presented with an angry lecture from a salesman bitching about the awful sign and people like himself need to make a living. When he finally paused long enough, I pointed to the sign and said, "You obviously are not very intelligent" and closed the door.
    Legislating to prevent people's acts is fantasy

  4. #94
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    Default Re: Purple Paint Law In PA. indicating No Tresspassing / Hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by chp1911 View Post
    Anyone who opens a business for the purpose of retail transactions or legal commerce gives "implied consent" for you to enter and remain on their property as long as you follow their rules. No firearms, No shirt no shoes no service, No Smoking, No vulgar language, No offensive logos on Tee shirts, No smelly hippies, No soliciting etc. As long as they do not violate laws on protected classes of people they can make any rules they wish.

    You do not need your neighbors explicit consent to trim branches that over hang your property. As long as it does not permanently harm the tree/shrub/plant.

    If your neighbor has a door bell on the front of his house he has given implied consent IF he has not posted his property with a No soliciting sign or with the proper no trespassing notification.

    Those are a few of the bodies of case law.
    Doorbell???

    Do elaborate.
    "Cives Arma Ferant"

    "I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001

  5. #95
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    Default Re: Purple Paint Law In PA. indicating No Tresspassing / Hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by chp1911 View Post
    Anyone who opens a business for the purpose of retail transactions or legal commerce gives "implied consent" for you to enter and remain on their property as long as you follow their rules. No firearms, No shirt no shoes no service, No Smoking, No vulgar language, No offensive logos on Tee shirts, No smelly hippies, No soliciting etc. As long as they do not violate laws on protected classes of people they can make any rules they wish.

    You do not need your neighbors explicit consent to trim branches that over hang your property. As long as it does not permanently harm the tree/shrub/plant.

    If your neighbor has a door bell on the front of his house he has given implied consent IF he has not posted his property with a No soliciting sign or with the proper no trespassing notification.

    Those are a few of the bodies of case law.
    Yep. Doorbells and even unlocked gates in front yards with a sidewalk to the door are implied consent to go to the front door. A locked gate, or other signage detailing conditions can negate the consent.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

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  6. #96
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    Default Re: Purple Paint Law In PA. indicating No Tresspassing / Hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by chp1911 View Post
    Anyone who opens a business for the purpose of retail transactions or legal commerce gives "implied consent" for you to enter and remain on their property as long as you follow their rules. No firearms, No shirt no shoes no service, No Smoking, No vulgar language, No offensive logos on Tee shirts, No smelly hippies, No soliciting etc. As long as they do not violate laws on protected classes of people they can make any rules they wish.

    You do not need your neighbors explicit consent to trim branches that over hang your property. As long as it does not permanently harm the tree/shrub/plant.

    If your neighbor has a door bell on the front of his house he has given implied consent IF he has not posted his property with a No soliciting sign or with the proper no trespassing notification.

    Those are a few of the bodies of case law.
    Why did you previously argue that “WRITTEN PERMISSION” is required to enter any private property? When I pointed out that there is a body of case law on the reasonable expectations of property owners and entrants, now you admit you don’t need it. I don’t understand your argument.

  7. #97
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    Default Re: Purple Paint Law In PA. indicating No Tresspassing / Hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by chp1911 View Post
    For fucks sake, are just trying to be difficult or do you not under stand? No one said that YOU have to have a survey done on every property that you wish to enter. Just ask the OWNER for permission, it is their responsibility to have their property surveyed. Purple paint to mark property against trespassing and a legal survey are two entirely different things. If you wish to have a lot surveyed that you do not own you will need permission as you DO NOT OWN THE LAND. You also do not have the authority to place any property markers UNLESS you are a licensed Surveyor.

    When a property is surveyed by a licensed surveyor markers are placed property corners and along points along the property lines( when necessary). The nice thing about a survey is that it shows the line between two adjoining properties. So when a neighbor has a survey done the folks that have the property next to them gets a FREE property survey along that line whether they like it of not.

    As far as the online property information, with GPS and satellite survey capabilities the information is very seldom incorrect .

    What the neighbor /Mr. Mrs. Anti gun THINK is irrelevant.
    If some one does not think that the property is correctly marked then they can bring the matter up in court. That is what the police are going to tell the parties involved as property line disputes are a civil matter that the police have no authority in. So unless the party that THINKS some one is trespassing cannot provide proof that someone is on their property illegally they have no argument. That is not to say that IF and WHEN they can show proof of trespass that the police cannot remove the trespasser. When proof has been established they can charge the offender with trespass.

    If the neighbor is going to be so petty to say that you placed a foot across the line the apologize and take a step back and continue on your way. If you have wandered a hundred yards on to his property then you are at fault.
    We are all colored by our experiences. I happen to be aware of abuses of laws criminalizing what would otherwise be a civil matter (ie. trespass). On the upside, such laws help the actual property owner enforce their right, if they so wish, to generally exclude others. The downside is it leads to taxpayers subsidizing frivolous arguments concerning property disputes. This commonly occurs between neighbors. There is an old saying that thieves have the best locks. There is a reason for that saying.

    If you don’t have this problem with frivolous accusations in your area than you are lucky to live with the people you do. You may be right that it may be legally irrelevant whether the neighbor is anti-hunting, anti-gun, a burglar, etc. However, in practice it is very relevant to the motivation to make the accusation or to fabricate. Not everyone respects others property, tells the truth, and uses the legal system properly. And not everyone can afford a good lawyer to fight back. This probably is more true in some areas than others.
    Last edited by Mosinshooter762; December 11th, 2019 at 12:25 PM.

  8. #98
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    Default Re: Purple Paint Law In PA. indicating No Tresspassing / Hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosinshooter762 View Post
    Why did you previously argue that “WRITTEN PERMISSION” is required to enter any private property? When I pointed out that there is a body of case law on the reasonable expectations of property owners and entrants, now you admit you don’t need it. I don’t understand your argument.
    I neve admitted any such thing. you are making two different arguments. There is a difference between private property for personal/private use and private property that is opened for commerce

    .Even though a business is privately owned it is considered a public accommodation. By puttying up your sign and opening your door for business you have given "implied consent".
    We the people love our country so let the government fear us.

  9. #99
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    Default Re: Purple Paint Law In PA. indicating No Tresspassing / Hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosinshooter762 View Post
    We are all colored by our experiences. I happen to be aware of abuses of laws criminalizing what would otherwise be a civil matter (ie. trespass). On the upside, such laws help the actual property owner enforce their right, if they so wish, to generally exclude others. The downside is it leads to taxpayers subsidizing frivolous arguments concerning property disputes. This commonly occurs between neighbors. There is an old saying that thieves have the best locks. There is a reason for that saying.

    If you don’t have this problem with frivolous accusations in your area than you are lucky to live with the people you do. You may be right that it may be legally irrelevant whether the neighbor is anti-hunting, anti-gun, a burglar, etc. However, in practice it is very relevant to the motivation to make the accusation or to fabricate. Not everyone respects others property, tells the truth, and uses the legal system properly. And not everyone can afford a good lawyer to fight back. This probably is more true in some areas than others.
    How do you figure that the tax payers are subsidizing anything to do with a property dispute. The parties that are disagreeing over the property borders/trespass are required to pay for their own legal representation.
    We the people love our country so let the government fear us.

  10. #100
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    Default Re: Purple Paint Law In PA. indicating No Tresspassing / Hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by chp1911 View Post
    I neve admitted any such thing. you are making two different arguments. There is a difference between private property for personal/private use and private property that is opened for commerce

    .Even though a business is privately owned it is considered a public accommodation. By puttying up your sign and opening your door for business you have given "implied consent".
    I misunderstood that when you previously referred to private property, you really meant to say this for only certain conditions of private property. Though, I am not sure this simple distinction you draw up resolves all the issues. Let’s say you own a mom and pop store and a parking lot, and your store is open from 9 am to 5 pm. Unconnected to you or your business, a number of people with cars congregate in your parking lot around 2 am. Is this parking lot so-called ‘public purpose/commerce’ private property? Are these people there with ‘implied consent’?
    Last edited by Mosinshooter762; December 11th, 2019 at 06:30 PM.

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