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Thread: SBR Question

  1. #11
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    Default Re: SBR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by esh21167 View Post
    Not applicable in this case, but a registered SBR/SBS/AOW/machine gun couldn't be gifted to a family member without transfer, could it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate7667 View Post
    Yes and no.

    No, not with out a proper Form 4 and tax paid transfer.

    Yes, when the original owner dies and wills item to said family member. Then it is a tax free transfer on a Form 5.
    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    If the receiver in question was never "NFA'd", it is just like any other Title I gun to the Fedz. Once it is "NFA'd", there are no paperless transfers to anyone.


    From the sounds of things, this receiver wasn't "NFA'd" yet, and since transfers of any type of guns between spouses don't require paperwork - the OP is legal to use it to manufacture his own SBR. ....well, as long as his old lady doesn't give a shit.
    Just as I thought. I was pretty sure OP's wife's lower was NOT an NFA registered lower, and just wanted us all to be clear that if it WERE, it would require a transfer.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: SBR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    Any time someone tries to do something like this instead of using it as an excuse to build another rifle, it makes me weep like the Indian on tv when I was a kid.
    No doubt! Itís cheap. Just do a virgin lower

  3. #13
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    Default Re: SBR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by :-) View Post
    If I was married, I would get a trust.

    She can give it to you.
    But before you form one it as an individual, have it engraved with your name and make it into an SBR, read this. https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/nfa-gun-trust
    Beware of people who sell trusts, telling you that the smart move is to have trusts.

    People who sell aluminum siding will tell you that in their expert opinion, EVERYBODY should have aluminum siding.

    The truth is, I've never heard of any non-prohibited spouse or family member ever being prosecuted for using an NFA firearm that was in the family home of the registrant, in an emergency. Sure, even after 85 years of the 1934 NFA, it's possible for the first person to be prosecuted, but there's a doctrine of necessity, that says that if you have to save your life, you will be excused the breaking of lesser laws.

    What gets folks in trouble is when PROHIBITED persons use guns (NFA or other) to defend themselves. In that case, it's not about an unlawful transfer, it's about that person having access all the time, which the popo only find out about when he smokes a bad guy with it.

    Trusts are a layer of extra complication after you die. They don't even save you any money (not much, anyway), because you can leave your NFA toys to someone in a will and they transfer tax-free; the only difference is whatever inheritance tax may apply to your $200 silencer or $10K machinegun, and for spouses in PA, the tax rate is 0%.

    It's simply not true that everyone benefits from having an NFA trust. It wasn't even true before ATF eliminated the CLEO signature requirement, so for damned sure it's not true now that we don't have to go begging for permission from the local satrap.

    Can a trust be useful? Sure, for a minority of NFA owners. But for most, your family will never want to take your toys to the range without you, and when you die, your heirs will want to sell your gear and divvy up the proceeds. I've handled a bunch of estates, that's just the truth. If you die and your expensive toys are in a trust naming your brother and cousin and your buddy from work, you've left them with an ugly situation, for which they won't thank you.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Free seminar 7/18/19 in Quakertown: https://www.senatormensch.com/concealed-carry-seminar/

  4. #14
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    Default Re: SBR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    If the receiver in question was never "NFA'd", it is just like any other Title I gun to the Fedz. Once it is "NFA'd", there are no paperless transfers to anyone.


    From the sounds of things, this receiver wasn't "NFA'd" yet, and since transfers of any type of guns between spouses don't require paperwork - the OP is legal to use it to manufacture his own SBR. ....well, as long as his old lady doesn't give a shit.
    Correct, no NFA paperwork was completed on the lower. She could care less, as we (I) have plenty of ARs.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: SBR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by MD66948 View Post
    I would buy a new Quality Lower and go with the trust. Don't buy a cheap POS Lower.

    Just my $0.02.
    Appreciate your $0.02. Itís a BCM Lower, not a cheap POS.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: SBR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by ERMedic View Post
    Quick question....My wife had purchased a complete AR lower a few years ago. She has since gotten other uppers/lowers and this one has sat in my safe untouched.
    When she had purchased it, we were not married. I know that in PA it is not required to transfer rifles/shotguns. Am I able to SBR this lower (in my name) even though it is currently registered to her for NFA purposes?
    ER Medic .... Mailbox full .. Clear it Bud

  7. #17
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    Default Re: SBR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    If you die and your expensive toys are in a trust naming your brother and cousin and your buddy from work, you've left them with an ugly situation, for which they won't thank you.
    Does this include a S corp?

  8. #18
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    Default Re: SBR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by bogey1 View Post
    Does this include a S corp?
    Depends on who owns the S corp.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Free seminar 7/18/19 in Quakertown: https://www.senatormensch.com/concealed-carry-seminar/

  9. #19
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    Default Re: SBR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Depends on who owns the S corp.
    My business is a S corp, and am going to will my nfa to my son.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: SBR Question

    Quote Originally Posted by bogey1 View Post
    My business is a S corp, and am going to will my nfa to my son.
    Not enough info to discern the question or the facts, but whatever percentage of the S corp that you own, will become property of your estate, and whatever that S corp owns goes along with it (sort of). If you own 100%, then your estate owns the entity, and your executor has to deal with the S corp as an entity/asset owned by the estate; it's subject to the claims of creditors first.

    If you registered your NFA in the S corp, then you can't bequeath the NFA stuff to your son, because the S corp didn't die, the owner of the S corp did. You could leave him the S corp and the right to possess the toys, but that's mostly invisible to ATF until he tries to buy more toys or transfer out the existing ones. And the majority of heirs (yours may be different) would need to hire a lawyer to figure out the rules.

    If anyone else owns a piece of the S corp, then it's different.

    It's not obvious, how NFA rules work, and most heirs (and most non-gun lawyers) haven't a clue. Plenty of MG's and silencers are found in estates and the horrified next of kin, administrators, or estate lawyers quietly dumpster them or drop them off a bridge, because they have no clue what a stamped Form 4 is. Even lawyers just assume that it's all contraband.

    I read once that something like 90% of the guns originally registered after the 1934 act are still registered with the original registrants. Do the math; if you were 21 in 1934, you're 106 now, and probably not getting out to the range that often. The truth is that most of those are either destroyed, deep-sixed, or possessed by family members who think vaguely that "It's OK, great-grandpa paid a tax for these, so I can keep them."
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Free seminar 7/18/19 in Quakertown: https://www.senatormensch.com/concealed-carry-seminar/

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