Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Buying a handgun at 18-21

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    The bad thing is, it may become a Catch 22 situation - if the police confiscate the handgun, they will likely want a background check performed on the owner if they have to give it back. ...And that agency may use a FFL to do it, which then could not legally transfer the firearm back to the owner since he would be under 21yo.

    I have heard of police agencies in PA using FFL's to do the background check on returns.

    Then it goes back to square one... Could he not then sue the PD/sheriff's office and compel the sheriff to do the transfer back, yes? Perhaps it would establish a precedent in the process.

  2. #12
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    Oct 2006
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    Brookville, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Buying a handgun at 18-21

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortytwo View Post
    Then it goes back to square one... Could he not then sue the PD/sheriff's office and compel the sheriff to do the transfer back, yes? Perhaps it would establish a precedent in the process.
    Yes, but good luck with that..

    Between the time, money, and hassle - it might not be worth it.

    I'm not trying to disparage anyone, just pointing out pitfalls.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Buying a handgun at 18-21

    The Uniform Firearms Act and other miscellaneous provisions doesn’t seem to require police to conduct a background check or to go through an FFL or Sheriff to return firearms in most cases. Act 79 of 2018, the Gun Control bill that was rammed through the General Assembly pertaining to Domestic Violence, did include some affirmative requirements for police, courts, and sheriffs to check before returning firearms in Domestic Violence Restraining Order gun confiscation cases. However, it seems this falls to the sheriff and the use of an FFL to check by police, courts, and sheriffs was not authorized by Act 79 of 2018.

    Again, I am not sure where police are basing the requirement to go through a background check except in Domestic Violence Restraining Order gun confiscation cases. My understanding is, in all other cases, they are required to return firearms unless they are aware one is prohibited from possessing firearms under state law.

    6111.1. Pennsylvania State Police.
    (b) Duty of Pennsylvania State Police.--
    (4) The Pennsylvania State Police and any local law enforcement agency shall make all reasonable efforts to determine the lawful owner of any firearm confiscated or recovered by the Pennsylvania State Police or any local law enforcement agency and return said firearm to its lawful owner if the owner is not otherwise prohibited from possessing the firearm. When a court of law has determined that the Pennsylvania State Police or any local law enforcement agency have failed to exercise the duty under this subsection, reasonable attorney fees shall be awarded to any lawful owner of said firearm who has sought judicial enforcement of this subsection.
    6107. Hearings. (Title 23)

    (i) Third parties and affidavits.--A court requiring relinquishment of firearms under this section shall provide for the hearing of petitions by third parties who request the return of a firearm relinquished by the defendant under subsection (a)(7). The following apply:
    (1) A third party claiming to be the lawful owner of a firearm relinquished by the defendant under subsection (a)(7) may request the return of the firearm by providing proof of ownership and a sworn affidavit.
    (2) The affidavit under paragraph (1) must affirm all of the following:
    (3) If the court orders the return of a firearm under this section, prior to the return of the firearm, the sheriff shall independently confirm that the person seeking relief under this section is legally eligible to possess firearms under Federal and State law. The sheriff shall conduct the background check as soon as practicable after the court enters an order under this section.
    6108.1. Return of relinquished firearms, other weapons and ammunition and additional relief. (Title 23)

    The sheriff's or the appropriate law enforcement agency's office shall maintain a weapons return form that the defendant may fill out and return to the office once a temporary or final protection from abuse order has been dismissed or expires.
    (a.1) Conditions for return.--The following conditions must be satisfied prior to the firearms, other weapons or ammunition being returned to the defendant:
    (1) The firearms, other weapons or ammunition relinquished must not be evidence of a crime.
    (2) The defendant or owner must not be otherwise prohibited by applicable Federal or State law, or another condition, including, but not limited to, bail, from taking possession of the firearms, other weapons or ammunition seized.
    (3) The defendant or owner must have been given a clearance by the Pennsylvania State Police Instant Check System Unit or through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), requested by the sheriff's office.
    (a.2) Notice to plaintiff.--The plaintiff of the protection from abuse order shall be notified of the defendant's request to return the firearms, other weapons or ammunition.
    (a.3) Petition for return.--If there is a determination under subsection (a.1) that the defendant is ineligible to regain possession of the firearms, other weapons or ammunition, the defendant or owner may file a petition appealing that determination and seeking their return. A copy of the petition must be served upon the plaintiff, sheriff and the district attorney.
    Last edited by Mosinshooter762; October 14th, 2019 at 11:11 AM.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Buying a handgun at 18-21

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosinshooter762 View Post
    The Uniform Firearms Act and other miscellaneous provisions doesn’t seem to require police to conduct a background check or to go through an FFL or Sheriff to return firearms in most cases. Act 79 of 2018, the Gun Control bill that was rammed through the General Assembly pertaining to Domestic Violence, did include some affirmative requirements for police, courts, and sheriffs to check before returning firearms in Domestic Violence Restraining Order gun confiscation cases. However, it seems this falls to the sheriff and the use of an FFL to check by police, courts, and sheriffs was not authorized by Act 79 of 2018.

    Again, I am not sure where police are basing the requirement to go through a background check except in Domestic Violence Restraining Order gun confiscation cases. My understanding is, in all other cases, they are required to return firearms unless they are aware one is prohibited from possessing firearms under state law.
    Not everything goes according to law.. Otherwise they wouldn't seize a gun just because it wasn't in the "database", which we all know happens from time to time.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Glockin, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Buying a handgun at 18-21

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    The bad thing is, it may become a Catch 22 situation - if the police confiscate the handgun, they will likely want a background check performed on the owner if they have to give it back. ...And that agency may use a FFL to do it, which then could not legally transfer the firearm back to the owner since he would be under 21yo.

    I have heard of police agencies in PA using FFL's to do the background check on returns.
    At that point I'd say ok give me my slide, barrel and lower parts back and destroy the frame. Then you're just out $100 and can buy a new one and build it out. Suck it .gov!

    One very important aspect of building is that no one can help you. You can't have a buddy drill your holes for you because he has steadier hands, as an example. It must be completely manufactured for your personal use and by you & only you.

    The other, non-legal advice aspect is the respect for your mother and father and going directly against their wishes if you're living under their roof or receiving any form of financial support. I'd be careful with that one. If you're on your own - different story. Additionally, make sure it stays locked up (not a legal requirement, but a good idea) and don't do anything stupid that teenagers tend to do - like bragging to your friends about how you built your own handgun, showing it off at a party, etc. Exercise the utmost responsibility and don't let bad judgement get the best of you while your brain is still developing.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    jersey shore, Pennsylvania
    (Lycoming County)
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    Default Re: Buying a handgun at 18-21

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    The bad thing is, it may become a Catch 22 situation - if the police confiscate the handgun, they will likely want a background check performed on the owner if they have to give it back. ...And that agency may use a FFL to do it, which then could not legally transfer the firearm back to the owner since he would be under 21yo.

    I have heard of police agencies in PA using FFL's to do the background check on returns.
    Didn't even think of that one.

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