Question About Buying A Long Gun In PA

[GOYABEAN]

Cutest-Beating-Dead-Horse-GIF.jpg

[Emptymag]

Someone in this thread said "Who wouldn't have a LTCF?" or something to that effect.

I let mine expire. I didn't renew for at least a year - I think it was almost two years.
I had stopped carrying and it was just one more time consuming process and money I didn't need to spend since I wasn't carrying.

I even bought a FTF long gun during that period. (two or three actually, as I think about it)
I just said, "Hey, I can show my PA driver's license as proof of residency. I've had a LTCF for XX years, but I let it expire since I don't carry - I can show it to you if you want."
Even my expired LTCF was "better than nothing" to the sellers.

(My LTCF has been renewed and has been valid for several years now)

[tcc722]

Not all sellers require it.

I live close to the md line, so it depends on what im selling. An Ar15, Ak, etc, I would like to see a DL to make sure you live in Pa. Tube fed 22, or pump shotgun, Im not looking at anything.

The only time i see a ltcf, is when somebody offers it up.

[Krichardson]

Black Girls On Skateboards.

Oh man,I saw a short but otherwise very nice clip on instagram!

[GunLawyer001]

Speaking as someone who has participated in a few criminal trials, I will say that if it becomes necessary to prove that you did SOME sort of due diligence to comply with state and Federal laws, then you can (a) show your ad which says you'll need to see an LTCF, and (b) if you saw his LTCF then there's a good chance that the Sheriff will have a record showing that he issued such an LTCF, if you remember the name of the buyer.

Against that, the Feds have to show that you knowingly sold to a prohibited person or out-of-state resident. They'll have his perjured testimony claiming that he TOLD you he was a felon or he couldn't go to a gun shop or whatever, he'll claim you initially balked but he paid you an extra $50 and you said OK; you'll want to have something in response.

Nothing is foolproof. Sure, someone can print out his own fake LTCF, someone can commit crimes after his valid LTCF is issued, even a guy with a valid LTCF issued to a previously law-abiding person could go nuts the day after he buys your rifle, and shoot up a mall.

Life is not without hazards. That doesn't mean you should embrace them.

What some demand is that the seller bear the risks of the transaction and the buyer should go on his anonymous way, free to sell to gangbangers without anyone being able to link him to the gun. I won't do that. I oppose gun registration because I don't trust the government to not come after them, so I don't want the government having easy lists of where the guns are. If Facebook can easily and cheaply track me looking at coffee grinders or SUV's or Bridget the Midget, then I think the Feds could cobble together lists of "every AR-15", if we let them. But me keeping a note that I sold my AR-15 to Bo Gusname from Berks county who had a PA LTCF expiring 15 months later, is NOT easily computerized and catalogued, it's just there like my car's airbag, in case I need it to protect me.

Anyone seriously chafed by this is someone looking to violate our laws, like your creepy neighbor who whines about your wife keeping an eye on your daughter all the time, citing vague high principles like "how is the girl going to learn to be independent?"

Back in the 1960's, it was common knowledge that the guy in your "activist cell" who was always pushing for the group to "do something real, man", the guy who knew a guy who could get them dynamite, was the FBI informant. Today, it's the guy encouraging nobodies to join ISIS or Al Qaida, the guy who gets them to buy the fake bomb. And white gun owners are increasingly being labeled the worst terrorist threat in America. So watch out for the guy pushing you to ignore the laws, he may be getting a US Treasury paycheck, or working down his plea agreement.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...threat-888748/

[Gun]

^^^^^


And this is why we cover our asses! IANAL, & YMMV.

Great post, GL!

[j_h_smith]

I have to call bullshit on this. I am using 2017 statistics, since that is the latest I have access to. Maryland had 17,414 licenses issued, which is a whopping .37 % of the population. That's right a whopping less than 1% of the population. Maryland is 43 in licenses issued and you beat those bastions of liberty such as Washington DC, Hawaii, New Jersey, California, New York, and Rhode Island. (Pennsylvania is #2 behind Florida) While I do not doubt that you have an unrestricted license, I should ask how many years you worked as a law enforcement official. And if you weren't a peace officer, then your political connections run very deep. If Maryland was still of nobility, you would undoubtedly be part of royalty in some fashion. Maryland State Police are not that gregarious in the issuance's of those priceless licenses. Finally, while I understand your position and the question that you are asking, I can't help thinking of the comparison that before you throw stones at us, maybe you should direct that energy towards making Maryland a better state. Lecturing people in a less restrictive state and telling them that they are wrong, while living in a highly restrictive state that borders on totalitarian, is like having a Chinese citizen lecturing us on human rights and freedom. Like I said in my previous post, move closer to your kids, the true actual freedom will be liberating... and you'll still be covered by LEOSA..

It's something like a 90% approval but when you only have 2% of the population apply, those numbers are skewed. The state has really turned the corner in the last few years. I am a landlord and small business owner that doesn't deal in cash. I was turned down 8 years ago. Was approved almost 2 years ago. The review board has help a lot of folks get their denial overturned. The other thing that prevents many from applying is that the training has to be done and paid for before you can apply. That's a lot of money for some folks with the fear that they will be denied by the MDSP. We aren't gun friendly, but it's getting better. I don't know if it's the Republican governor, but it's gotten better. We also have a few court cases that once they make their way up to the higher courts, we should get even more relief.

[j_h_smith]

So you are suggesting we should require all transfers go thru a FFL so they are fully documented?

No, not at all. I'm saying that whatever happens between two free men should stay between those men. Read my first post. in MD it's not uncommon to see the exchange of a firearm between 2 people with nothing more than a handshake and an exchange of money. If one or the other has questions, a Bill of Sale can be used. If needed a DL is also a possibility. It's just in PA if you don't have a LTCF, many sellers won't sell you the long gun. Folks who live in VA and WV, both with CCW permits, don't require you show your permit before conducting business. It really is just a PA thing. I have family in both of these states and they've never heard of anything but a handshake being required for a FTF deal.

[McSull]

No, not at all. I'm saying that whatever happens between two free men should stay between those men. Read my first post. in MD it's not uncommon to see the exchange of a firearm between 2 people with nothing more than a handshake and an exchange of money. If one or the other has questions, a Bill of Sale can be used. If needed a DL is also a possibility. It's just in PA if you don't have a LTCF, many sellers won't sell you the long gun. Folks who live in VA and WV, both with CCW permits, don't require you show your permit before conducting business. It really is just a PA thing. I have family in both of these states and they've never heard of anything but a handshake being required for a FTF deal.

We're practically surrounded by the enemy. We would all love for it to stay between two private parties, but governments can, and will, ruin your life, regardless if you've done anything wrong or not.

[HKusp 45]

BGOS

sooooo basically you have nothing relevant to dispute my explanation but hey everyone is tough on the internet once they can't raise a valid counter to a logical statement. It's like a 5 year old who doesn't have an answer just says the same thing that has no relevance but louder in the hopes that it wins an argument. Very similar to most democrat candidates.