Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Of all the 9x19mm JHP on the market...

    Just buy anything you want and do a mag dump.
    "Take the guns first, then worry about due process" Trump

  2. #12
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    Tucson, Arizona
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    Default Re: Of all the 9x19mm JHP on the market...

    How would we know?
    You might trust the FBI tests, you might trust your local PD, you might search Google, but pistols aren't that good for one shot stops, and, as far as I know, only the .45 Auto was designed based on the knowledge of one shot kills of high on drug suicidal opponents using the .45 Colt.
    There is a maybe a reason why 9x19 guns tend to be high capacity and, when hi-cap mags are banned, the .45 starts to sell a lot more.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Of all the 9x19mm JHP on the market...

    Here's what I know:

    There's a 99% chance it will never happen.

    If it does happen there's a really good chance just pointing the gun in their direction is enough to make them piss their pants and run.

    New 9mm ammo is a lot different from the garbage they had years ago.

    Ammo and caliber don't matter if you never train and will miss your target in a high stress situation.

    If you decide to use a 1911 .45 you will only get one shot anyway since it will jam.
    "Take the guns first, then worry about due process" Trump

  4. #14
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    Jun 2010
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    warminster, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Of all the 9x19mm JHP on the market...

    ^^^^^

    Most of this agree with.


    Removing the swipe at 1911's from the equation, the reality is, one shot may not do it regardless of caliber. There have been people who've taken 44 magnum shots to the chest and it didn't drop them. This being said, use the ammo that feeds best with your pistol. Be ready to take a follow-up shot. Practice practice practice. Add everything together and be prepared to defend yourself with reality, not advertising.
    There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy - Dante.

  5. #15
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    Feb 2013
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    The cold, dark, void, Pennsylvania
    (Clearfield County)
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    Default Re: Of all the 9x19mm JHP on the market...

    I'm going to add that your mindset going into a gunfight should not be "this guy is going to drop after the first hit" because when that doesn't happen the surprise is going to throw you off mentally. You shouldn't expect the guy to drop at all, your mindset should be "I am going to keep dumping rounds until the threat is gone".
    NOBODY NEEDS ASSAULT SPEECH

  6. #16
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    Feb 2010
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    Levittown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Of all the 9x19mm JHP on the market...

    May I offer a couple of thoughts. I think worrying about differences of points of impact between carry ammo and practice ammo is not a big worry. It's a couple of inches in the vertical within the distances you'll likely be shooting.

    Handgun bullets entering a human body cannot be relied upon to behave in a predicted manner. For example, a hollow point may get closed when it strikes bone and the classic umbrella may not happen.

    Only two things will stop a threat instantly. A brain shot and a spinal shot. From that knowledge evolved the double tap to center mass followed by one to the head.
    Notice the conventional wisdom is outside of one-shot stops by three.

    Reaching the spine calls for penetration. Here's the problem. Most people haven't the knowledge of anatomy to accurately visualize where that spine actually is when a person is a target. It is not the perfect perpendicular presentation between the target shooter and the paper target. The human body is usually rotated in some direction to some degree, making an already small target elusive as well.

    Those considerations generated the "hydraulic shock effect" concept and the myriad hollow point designs. Theory being, bullet exiting is carried by energy wasted. Let's get the target to absorb as much energy as possible and hope for hydraulic shock to reach the vital organs and spine.

    Since then we learned from the Miama-Dade shoot-out and others that determined people can be oblivious to having been shot. Even mortally shot.

    Last I knew, the FBI counsels grab a rifle for shots 25 yards or more. Some consider a handgun as a tool to get to a rifle or shotgun.

    To answer the posted question, I think it can be readily seen that a person might withstand a .22 long enough to keep pursuing his intentions, while being struck by a cannon ball center mass would very likely instantly stop him. That seems to suggest bigger and heavier is the more likely to succeed.
    Legislating to prevent people's acts is fantasy

  7. #17
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    Dec 2017
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    LMT, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Of all the 9x19mm JHP on the market...

    Yeah I snagged up 500 rounds of the 124+p hst for like 160 last year. I'd call that several lifetimes supply, unless the big luau comes.
    To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."

  8. #18
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    Nov 2007
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    Belly of the BEAST, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Of all the 9x19mm JHP on the market...

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyandy View Post
    Yeah I snagged up 500 rounds of the 124+p hst for like 160 last year. I'd call that several lifetimes supply, unless the big luau comes.
    Break out the grass skirts and the tiki torches! Lol

    Found a local ammo guy, has the 148 HST 50 round boxes for $16 each out the door

  9. #19
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    Feb 2013
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    Ercildoun, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Of all the 9x19mm JHP on the market...

    Even the SAS knows and trains that a 9x19 takes at least two shots to stop an attacker no matter which brand or type you use. Why do you think they keep on coming out with bigger and bigger magazines for that somewhat mediocre calibre? If you're looking for the best averages of one shot stops you have to go to over to revolver calibres like .357 and 44 magnum. Thems is just how it is.
    The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    North Penn area, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Of all the 9x19mm JHP on the market...

    I still have a few boxes of Federal Hydra-Shok 124gr +P+ marked "LAW ENFORCEMENT USE ONLY''. They only get used in my CZ-75 or Star 30.
    I don't speak English , I talk American!

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