He didn't say that?

[ALS]

Barack said he wants everyone to have the health insurance plan that he and John have. He wants to put everyone in the same insurance pool that Government employee's have. What does he think that plan for a for a family of four going to cost? That Cadillac plan would cost the average family of four $1600-$2000 a month. So how does Barack plan on paying for that Cadillac plan for every American

[DCChris]

Silly..........we could use our new stimulus money that he's promising to pay for it.

[Emptymag]

If you say it enough it becomes true.

[Morel42]

McCain's plan vs Obama's Plan..

I've really really tried to find 100% non-partisan sources for this.. Which holy @#$%$#$ isn't easy..

http://www.reuters.com/article/polit...39216720080916

That is the best honest viewpoint on both of them.

Neither of them are very attractive.. However I believe that McCain's plan has more downside if you look at the effects on the whole system..

Basically Obama's plan sets up a new health care company (not literally, but easiest term to use) which has the downside of putting the gov't in competition with private business. Additionally, it (could) cost a huge fing amount of money.. Money that could be minimized if it's run with the same mount of low overhead costs that Medicare is (3% vs 25% compared to Private insurance)..
McCain's plan basically gives everyone 5,000 dollars to spend on health care. Personally, my health care coverage costs around 500 dollars a month for a single healthy mid 30's smoking male (cough). A family costs a ton more, so your milage may vary.
However, his plan basically equals giving public money directly to the health care companies. Which costs money, it will also (some experts say) will lead to many companies to drop coverage totally resulting in a net loss of covered individuals.

Obama's plan works only during a economic boom where companies must compete for workers (and offering benefits) but has issues when unemployment is high and more and more people get put on the rolls. He has to pay for it somewhere, which he hasn't explained. It also make no sense to offer the best coverage anyone can get (have you SEEN The plan that Washington gives themselves!?) by default..

McCains plan doesn't work because it doesn't solve the underlying problems, and provides no incentive for companies to provide benefits if they can afford it. He also doesn't explain how to pay for it (common theme It seems in all politicians lol)

In fact that if company group plans fall apart, the entire house of cards falls apart.. And well kinda horrible to think about really.

I think a good middle ground is this.. (Ignoring how to pay for it, because that's a huge other topic.. lol)

Offer a basic "low rung" coverage that provides basic coverage for doctors visits, dental, and preventive care.. The crap that you see people going to emergency rooms for a-lot of times.. You would actually end up saving money if people would go to the doctor for a flu shot instead of going to the ER when they're about to die..

Basic Coverage means that it is exactly that.. It doesn't compare to any private insurance company, its not coverage anyone would want if they can afford better. That way it doesn't compete with private enterprise.

So both sides aren't good solutions and are open to huge problems (personally I think McCains is a worse idea, but blah blah blah lol)

[adymond]

snip . . .

Money that could be minimized if it's run with the same mount of low overhead costs that Medicare is (3% vs 25% compared to Private insurance)..

Except when you factor in the 31.6% Medicare fraud the wasted money is about 9.6% higher than the private sector. Maybe a reasonable amount of overhead helps to portect against fradulent claims being paid out.

snip . . . Offer a basic "low rung" coverage that provides basic coverage for doctors visits, dental, and preventive care.. The crap that you see people going to emergency rooms for a-lot of times.. You would actually end up saving money if people would go to the doctor for a flu shot instead of going to the ER when they're about to die..

Basic Coverage means that it is exactly that.. It doesn't compare to any private insurance company, its not coverage anyone would want if they can afford better. That way it doesn't compete with private enterprise.

So both sides aren't good solutions and are open to huge problems (personally I think McCains is a worse idea, but blah blah blah lol)

The thing is we already have a broken system that does EXACTLY what you are suggesting. It's called Medicare. Also factor in that if you go to a hospital (private or public) with a life threatening illness or injury you MUST be treated and there is not one person who will not be able to get treatment. That 47 million number that we keep hearing about is crap. I don't have all the percentages anymore, but there are 20% that are illegals, 30% who make over $50K per year, another large percentage who qualify for Medicare, but don't enroll. It comes out that there are realisticlly about 5 million who are not insured. The problem with healthcare is government involvement.

[Brick]

I need help on this issue, see I don't have a dog in this fight, because I'm covered as part of my pension.

I don't like the idea of the gov't some how taxing health insurance benefits and I can't even understand the idea of how it would be done. So I am "not impressed" with McCain's plan, but I do like the idea of a tax credit or a tax free health insurance savings account for individuals or families.

I'm more wary of Obama's plan though, because I just don't see how or why employers are going to keep providing health insurance for employees if the government is going to cover people under the Federal Employee system. Does he intend to mandate that employers must provide health insurance? If not what will keep employers from dumping health coverage even though they might increase employee pay a little to compensate. The net effect will be everyone ends up in the Federal system. Sort of like Walmart, my employer provides me with family plan health care, my wife works for Walmart and because she's covered under my insurance plan, she declines the company offered plan and Walmart pays her the difference in her hourly wage. So what did I miss?

[stevieb92]

I need help on this issue, see I don't have a dog in this fight, because I'm covered as part of my pension.

I don't like the idea of the gov't some how taxing health insurance benefits and I can't even understand the idea of how it would be done. So I am "not impressed" with McCain's plan, but I do like the idea of a tax credit or a tax free health insurance savings account for individuals or families.

I'm more wary of Obama's plan though, because I just don't see how or why employers are going to keep providing health insurance for employees if the government is going to cover people under the Federal Employee system. Does he intend to mandate that employers must provide health insurance? If not what will keep employers from dumping health coverage even though they might increase employee pay a little to compensate. The net effect will be everyone ends up in the Federal system. Sort of like Walmart, my employer provides me with family plan health care, my wife works for Walmart and because she's covered under my insurance plan, she declines the company offered plan and Walmart pays her the difference in her hourly wage. So what did I miss?

If you still want a choice in much of anything you do in your life, vote for McCain. Obama will make most every choice or thing in your life MANDATORY or face fines or jail time if you don't do as he wants. Simple choice in my opinion.

[adymond]

I need help on this issue, see I don't have a dog in this fight, because I'm covered as part of my pension.

I don't like the idea of the gov't some how taxing health insurance benefits and I can't even understand the idea of how it would be done. So I am "not impressed" with McCain's plan, but I do like the idea of a tax credit or a tax free health insurance savings account for individuals or families.

I'm more wary of Obama's plan though, because I just don't see how or why employers are going to keep providing health insurance for employees if the government is going to cover people under the Federal Employee system. Does he intend to mandate that employers must provide health insurance? If not what will keep employers from dumping health coverage even though they might increase employee pay a little to compensate. The net effect will be everyone ends up in the Federal system. Sort of like Walmart, my employer provides me with family plan health care, my wife works for Walmart and because she's covered under my insurance plan, she declines the company offered plan and Walmart pays her the difference in her hourly wage. So what did I miss?

Answer to the bold: Yes. If the employer fails to provide insurance THEN the employee can be enrolled into the Federal System.

McCain's plan is a bit easier to understand I think. The way I see it the health coverage (there is always an accounting of how much it costs to cover an employee and family) would be included in your taxable income. I think the average would be about 5,000-6,000/year. The tax would be calculated off of that. Then you get the tax credit of $5K. That credit would be payable directly to the insurance companies. This would hopefully give the insurance companies more of a garaunteed (relative term these days) stream of income since it is coming from the government and not an individual. You would pay less in tax than you would get as a tax credit. The thing would be you would need to be providing coverage for your family in order to get that credit. Not like the rebate checks Obama plans to send to people who aren't even paying taxes.

[Dredly]

Has anyone else that has been following dumb and dumber noticed a very very interesting development?

They keep changing their plans... both of them have.

Initially Obama was going to fine business owners, it was clearly stated on his website although the level of fine was never given. He was also going to fine families who SHOULD be able to afford health care but weren't insured. There would also be punitive fines leveled against employers who offered sub-standard health care and tax breaks for those that offered better care then the gov't plans.

that whole piece has disappeared now and there is no mention of it... anyone actually believe its gone? I hope if you make enough money that you don't have any bills and you have spare cash or else your gonna get socked.


Originally McCain was going to tax the 'free money" given out, that has also disappeared. This was also supposed to be an opt-in program only so basically a way to kick people off medicare but still encourage plans to remain through the employer. He is going to give out a ONE TIME payment... whats the problem with one time payments? they only last for so long before they need to be made again... what happens when the initial 2500 or 5000 is all used up? (probably 2 - 3 years?) does the gov't issue another? Are we on our own to pay for it? Plus there will still be "assistance for lower income" so guess what... I still have to pay for other peoples health care AND my own... how does this help?

Both are going to attack the drug manufactures... which is a great move... damn those companies for spending BILLIONS in R&D to get a new drug out to market to attempt to make a profit... don't they know money shouldn't matter? So we'll shorten the amount of time they can sell it at without competition... that'll teach em! Didn't we used to have something called intellectual property / patents in this country? Must have missed where it said "items for the public good don't count"

Face it guys, both absolutely SUCK! They are garbage and they are both doing whatever it takes to try to get into power. By the time that our next elected president has finished their first 4 years it will look like George Bush was a genius and is in the running for greatest pres ever. And I really don't like GW

[Pector55]

I need help on this issue, see I don't have a dog in this fight, because I'm covered as part of my pension.

I don't like the idea of the gov't some how taxing health insurance benefits and I can't even understand the idea of how it would be done. So I am "not impressed" with McCain's plan, but I do like the idea of a tax credit or a tax free health insurance savings account for individuals or families.

I'm more wary of Obama's plan though, because I just don't see how or why employers are going to keep providing health insurance for employees if the government is going to cover people under the Federal Employee system. Does he intend to mandate that employers must provide health insurance? If not what will keep employers from dumping health coverage even though they might increase employee pay a little to compensate. The net effect will be everyone ends up in the Federal system. Sort of like Walmart, my employer provides me with family plan health care, my wife works for Walmart and because she's covered under my insurance plan, she declines the company offered plan and Walmart pays her the difference in her hourly wage. So what did I miss?

I did the math for an AGI (adjusted gross income) of $50k, $80k, and $100k. I took my healthcare costs and had them come out of my paycheck with a tax rate of 25%. At that, my cost is $6000 a year (which I already pay) plus an additional 25% tax of $1500 a year. Now, you basically look in your tax tables for what you paid the year before and add $6000 - what you deducted for taxes paid $1500, so basically your AGI went up $4500. Since I pay as a married couple filing jointly, I take McCain's $5000 tax credit.

My taxes decreased by over $3000. Because of that, you simply increase your exemptions so that $1500 tax is a non-issue in your paycheck. In the end, you save money and you have the ability to shop around instead of being pigeon-holed into what your companies uses.

Here are two examples: What happened when Telephone companies turned into smaller companies?

What happend when government got involved with the mortgage industry?