Classic Arms Saiga AK-47

[seoulstice]

Came across these today, anyone know anything about them or heard anything? I had just read a web page describing how to move the trigger group forward on a stand Saiga rifle to accomodate a pistol grip when I saw that Classic Arms is offering a Saiga AK-47 with the standard AK-47 style trigger group placement.

Considering getting one but would like to know more about Saigas. Apparently these will accept ALL magazine types, not just Saiga specific magazines like their "Semi Auto Sporting rifles".

[scoutjoe]

Came across these today, anyone know anything about them or heard anything? I had just read a web page describing how to move the trigger group forward on a stand Saiga rifle to accomodate a pistol grip when I saw that Classic Arms is offering a Saiga AK-47 with the standard AK-47 style trigger group placement.

Warning, I'm suffering from the plague...so if I don't seem like I'm making sense that could be why. Now with the disclaimer out of the way, if you're halfway mechanical you can turn a Saiga rifle in "sporter" form to a "ak" form with no real problems

If you decided to go converted from Classic Arms I would suggest getting one with an "US" buttstock, it helps with your 922r count and fits better (unless you've got some real long arms). Ask them how the bullet guide is held in (generally speaking welded= bad, screwed is good though)

Personally I bought my Saiga (7.62x39) long before i knew they could be converted...it looked like an AK to me and was dirt cheap. I enjoyed converting mine because I now have a much better understanding of the rifle.

Considering getting one but would like to know more about Saigas. Apparently these will accept ALL magazine types, not just Saiga specific magazines like their "Semi Auto Sporting rifles".

Saigas in a stock form will not feed most standard AK mags, also sticking in an AK mag bigger than 10 rounds violates 922r (a federal law). If you put in a bullet guide and trim the mag latch on the gun AK mags will feed just fine.

There is also a Saiga specific forum (not through this board) Google "Saiga-12 Forum" if it isn't in my sig line.

I have a slight obsession with them...people from the group shoot can attest to that

[seoulstice]

Hey Joe, thanks for the reply. I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here... I do have access to a shop but I'm not so sure I would do a good job of converting a regular Saiga with the hunting buttstock and rearward trigger group to an AK pattern rifle.

The rifle in question is something I saw on www.ClassicArms.com. I'll post some pictures from that site, maybe we are talking about different things.




Here is what he says about them:

MANUFACTURED IN RUSSIA AT THE FAMOUS IZMASH FACTORY THESE GREAT RIFLES ARE FINALLY AVAILABLE IN THE ORIGINAL AK STYLE CONFIGURATION. EACH RIFLE INCORPORATES A SIDE RAIL SCOPE
MOUNT AND WILL ACCEPT ALL HI-CAPACITY AK MAGAZINES AND DRUMS. I JUST FINISHED TEST FIRING ONE OF THESE AND IT WAS AN ABSOLUTE PLEASURE TO SHOOT. RIFLE IS EXTREMELY LIGHTWEIGHT AND THE POLYMER STOCK AND HANDGUARD CONFIGURATION IS BOTH COMFORTABLE AND RUGGED. HAS ONE OF THE SWEETEST TRIGGER PULLS ON ANY AK I HAVE FIRED. RIFLE AS PICTURED ABOVE CONTAINS ENOUGH U.S. PARTS TO BE FULLY 922r. COMPLIANT WITH ALL AK MAGS REGARDLESS OF COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. UNLIKE SOME OTHERS THAT WE HAVE SEEN, WE HAVE TAKEN NO SHORTCUTS. WE HAVE TAKEN THE TIME AND GONE THROUGH THE EXPENSE OF HAVING THE TRIGGER GROUP REPLACED WITH A U.S. MADE TRIGGER GROUP SO THAT THIS RIFLE IS LEGAL WITH ALL U.S. MADE MAGS AND DRUMS. IT IS NOT DEPENDANT ON A U.S. MADE MAG TO MEET ITS PARTS COUNT. BEAUTIFUL DARK BLACK PHOSPHATE FINISH, PARKERIZED SITE FOR CONTRAST. BRAND NEW PRODUCTION.

From what he is saying it is 922r compliant regardless of mag size or country of origin....why would a magazine larger than 10 rounds be illegal here in PA? Even if the magazine was the last part needed to make the rifle 922r compliant you could always put in a US made magazine...right? Just a little confused here.

[scoutjoe]

Hey Joe, thanks for the reply. I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here... I do have access to a shop but I'm not so sure I would do a good job of converting a regular Saiga with the hunting buttstock and rearward trigger group to an AK pattern rifle.

You can do it, it requires you to take off a plate (dremel cut off wheels to the rescue!) punch out the old trigger pins (or cut them, they are "flanged" at least i think that is the term) and drill and tap a whole in the front truinon (hardest part for me, broke 2 taps).

The rifle in question is something I saw on www.ClassicArms.com. I'll post some pictures from that site, maybe we are talking about different things.

Ok, I see which ones you're talking about now. IF you look further down on the page there is a Saiga with "original buttstock" that is the one that I was trying to steer you away from. Both of the two you show are fully 922r compliant with any magazine.

From what he is saying it is 922r compliant regardless of mag size or country of origin....why would a magazine larger than 10 rounds be illegal here in PA? Even if the magazine was the last part needed to make the rifle 922r compliant you could always put in a US made magazine...right? Just a little confused here.

922r is a Federal Law, not a Pa Law. Once you get past the "parts count" (ie changing out enough parts to make your russian gun an american gun so you can have standard mags 20,30,40,75, etc) you can have any size that you want here in Pa, at least for going after paper targets.

You can use a magazine towards your parts count, but I've always heard it not to be recommended because of the language of the law...."if you have the ability to accept a high capacity magazine"....so the idea is that an BATF agent could smack a 30rd stick from china into your Saiga that you were just using american mags in and ta-da... 922r violation. I've never heard of anybody being brought up on 922r charges though....but its still the law

Hopefully I got it hammered out there.....

[seoulstice]

Gotcha Joe, makes sense. I'd heard that you could also make the magazines compliant by using the internals from a US made magazine and using it in a foreign made magazine body[according to FBMG.com] but I can see why it would be better to be completely 922r compliant without relying on a US made magazine as the last part of the puzzle.

So, what do you think of these new[?] Saigas that have already been converted[or made from the factory] to the same style as the AK-47? Looks like it would save me from accidentally messing up a Saiga by trying to convert it and the price point isn't bad either...pretty close to the Bulgarian AK I was looking at a couple of months ago. I did look on the Saiga forums you recommended but I only found one brief mention of these in a gun pictures thread. Do Saigas shoot better than the non-Russian AK pattern rifles?

Kind of on the fence here, I don't want to miss out on this deal if its a limited thing and at the same time I want to wait till after the elections...I did have my heart set on a Service Grade CMP Garand until I came across this...

[scoutjoe]

Gotcha Joe, makes sense. I'd heard that you could also make the magazines compliant by using the internals from a US made magazine and using it in a foreign made magazine body[according to FBMG.com] but I can see why it would be better to be completely 922r compliant without relying on a US made magazine as the last part of the puzzle.

Yup, 3 parts in a mag the body, follower and floorplate. Mix and match at will, I just don't count on them in my conversion.

So, what do you think of these new[?] Saigas that have already been converted[or made from the factory] to the same style as the AK-47? Looks like it would save me from accidentally messing up a Saiga by trying to convert it and the price point isn't bad either...pretty close to the Bulgarian AK I was looking at a couple of months ago. I did look on the Saiga forums you recommended but I only found one brief mention of these in a gun pictures thread. Do Saigas shoot better than the non-Russian AK pattern rifles?

There are no Russian factory converted Saiga rifles in the country, at least that I've seen/heard of. About 150-200 converted Saiga-12 shotguns made it in during the Clinton Ban....but that's a different can of worms

As for Saigas shooting better? I can't say definitely one way or the other on that issue. I can say that mine was/is more accurate than my Romak 99.1 . I haven't directly compared it to a Bulgy. The biggest difference you'll see is the fact that these are new, from "the factory" in Russia where Russia gets its AKs....so take that for what its worth. IF you compare a saiga up to a bulgy though you will be disappointed in the fit and finish, but they used to be a 1/3 of the price...so...that wasn't a big deal.

Kind of on the fence here, I don't want to miss out on this deal if its a limited thing and at the same time I want to wait till after the elections...I did have my heart set on a Service Grade CMP Garand until I came across this...

What do you want out of it? If you're looking for more of an accurate 100+yard gun...go with the Garand, period. If you want an AK styled gun that realistically you're done with at 100yds, go with the Saiga. For me it was the cheaper ammo, AK looks and the fact that it can go bang more times per mag. Not saying I don't like the Garand...because I want one. If you want the best of both worlds my suggestion would be to buy the Garand and see if you can pick up a Saiga unconverted cheaply (locally, Classic Arms, Stanleys Pro Shop..etc) Then as more funds come into the pipe start buying the conversion parts....

One more note, I can't make you convert...but seriously stop hiding behind the "I'm going to screw it up" line The basic conversion on the x39 is slightly above changing your oil on the skill level (its tapping for that screw, so if you can do that..I think you'd be golden).

[93-2.3]

how much are these siaga's going for these days?

[ZZ1]

Step by Step instruction for Saiga AK-47 Conversion (in .AVI video format):

http://rapidshare.com/files/88482154..._0_-_Intro.avi
http://rapidshare.com/files/88480375...isassembly.avi
http://rapidshare.com/files/88480624...-_Drilling.avi
http://rapidshare.com/files/88480978...gger_Guard.avi
http://rapidshare.com/files/88481349...istol_Grip.avi
http://rapidshare.com/files/88481862...Reassembly.avi
http://rapidshare.com/files/88482111..._6_-_Final.avi

[seoulstice]

One more note, I can't make you convert...but seriously stop hiding behind the "I'm going to screw it up" line The basic conversion on the x39 is slightly above changing your oil on the skill level (its tapping for that screw, so if you can do that..I think you'd be golden).

Well I hope you are right Joe, decided to order the regular Saiga for $300 rather than spend the $520 for the converted Saiga. I'm looking around right now for an online vendor that I can buy all the parts I'll need at once. Looks like I'll save myself around $100 by doing it myself.

For the person who asked about the pricing, I got my regular "sporting" rifle Saiga for $300 + shipping + $20 FFL fee. You can order a Saiga that has already been converted from Classic Arms for $500-520+ shipping+FLL fee.

[scoutjoe]

Well I hope you are right Joe, decided to order the regular Saiga for $300 rather than spend the $520 for the converted Saiga. I'm looking around right now for an online vendor that I can buy all the parts I'll need at once. Looks like I'll save myself around $100 by doing it myself.

I earned my nickname on the saiga forum as the "village idiot" If I can pull it off you can pull it off. Drop me a line if you need help with any part of it.

Mississippi Auto Arms is a good place to buy parts from, check to see if they have everything you want.

Are you staying with the Saiga forend? or are you going to go to an AK style front end?