Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Springfield two bucks county discharge ordinance hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Manxdriver View Post
    A little more clarification please. Are you saying , oh let’s say, Warminster Township cannot have a law stating ‘ no shooting’? Serious question.
    See above. Or click this link for a good example...
    https://princelaw.files.wordpress.co...er-7-28-17.pdf
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    μολ ν λαβέ
    What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    LMT, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Springfield two bucks county discharge ordinance hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by rkrcpa View Post
    I live maybe 2 miles from Springfield Twp, Bucks Cty. Saturday night we heard shooting well into the night, probably until midnight.

    I don't know where the shots were from, could have been in the direction of Springfield Twp. I can see where some people might question shooting that late at night.
    Sounds like a great Saturday night IMO
    To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."

  3. #13
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    Feb 2015
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    Montco, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Springfield two bucks county discharge ordinance hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer View Post
    See above. Or click this link for a good example...
    https://princelaw.files.wordpress.co...er-7-28-17.pdf
    I'm not a lawyer, but "discharging" isn't mentioned in preemption at all. I understand the "how can you be 'well regulated' if you can't practice" argument (or even more extreme, "how can you protect yourself with a gun if it's illegal to shoot it"), but that still requires somebody higher than the local magistrate to make it stick. Thankfully my town has no such ordinance.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Springfield two bucks county discharge ordinance hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Royinmontco View Post
    I'm not a lawyer, but "discharging" isn't mentioned in preemption at all. I understand the "how can you be 'well regulated' if you can't practice" argument (or even more extreme, "how can you protect yourself with a gun if it's illegal to shoot it"), but that still requires somebody higher than the local magistrate to make it stick. Thankfully my town has no such ordinance.
    I'm not a lawyer either, but we're lucky enough to have one who is that has fought to protect our rights to discharge a firearm using preemption successfully.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    μολ ν λαβέ
    What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    127.1.1.1, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Springfield two bucks county discharge ordinance hearing

    I hope people are able to attend.


    As for the nopise, how would you know form a distance the different between fireworks and gun fire?

    I have had neighbors and myself run to the window to what woke us up as what we though gun fire but it was fireworks. Just happened to be the sound and the houses etc.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Bucks, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Springfield two bucks county discharge ordinance hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer View Post
    Good thing preemption prohibits them from restricting discharge of firearms too.
    Every word in a statute matters. So "lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth" doesn't mention "discharging" firearms, and there are no cases that I know of at the appellate level holding that a municipality can't bar DISCHARGING firearms within its jurisdiction, with an implicit exception for self-defense (per the justification defense).

    The grandfathering clause applicable to pre-existing ranges is an exception to this. And we wouldn't need a grandfathering clause for pre-existing ranges if municipalities couldn't ban discharges of firearms.

    The state hunting regs also preempt local rules, meaning that your local tyrants probably can't eliminate you hunting on private land with the consent of the landowner.

    Quick, insert "discharging" into the appropriate category below:
    - ownership
    - possession
    - transfer
    - transportation

    The statute lists 4 categories of "gun-related activities", but omits "use". The rules of statutory construction make that significant. We aren't allowed to gloss over the meanings of the words used.

    I'm as sure of this as I'm sure that a non-SOT trust can't legally make a new machinegun. Or that our appellate courts are open to allowing municipalities to bar guns from city-owned property, as long as they use their rights as property owners and not the criminal statutes (see Footnote 9 of the Erie disaster).
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Free seminar 7/18/19 in Quakertown: https://www.senatormensch.com/concealed-carry-seminar/

  7. #17
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    Jan 2011
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    Oh so close to the Delaware River!, New Jersey
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    Default Re: Springfield two bucks county discharge ordinance hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by thefirstndsecond View Post
    I hope people are able to attend.


    As for the nopise, how would you know form a distance the different between fireworks and gun fire?

    I have had neighbors and myself run to the window to what woke us up as what we though gun fire but it was fireworks. Just happened to be the sound and the houses etc.
    I hear occasional "bangs" in the upper buck/lower northampton areas. A good portion of those times, I can see the fireworks too! I suspect there is more going on than concerns about hunting on private land.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Springfield two bucks county discharge ordinance hearing

    Woo hoo!

    Bucks County township sticks to its guns, rejects major firearms restrictions


    Supervisors in Springfield Township, Bucks County, decided no wide-ranging ordinance on shooting firearms on private property is needed. The supervisors looked into an ordinance because of numerous complaints of excessive shooting. (Andrew Aughenbaugh/TNS FILE PHOTO)


    The anticipation of an ordinance that would bring sweeping restrictions on shooting firearms on private property brought out at least 70 people Tuesday to the Springtown Fire Department to hear what rules would be imposed by Springfield Township supervisors.

    While many from the upper Bucks County township attended to oppose any rules, the supervisors agreed to only one provision, which was allowing shooting between 7 a.m. and dusk.

    Supervisors Chairman David Long presented a list of possible restrictions, such as property size, the number of people permitted to shoot on a property, days of the week and noise.

    In all the categories, except the 7 a.m. to dusk rule, none of the other four supervisors expressed a need to enact any restrictions.


    “I think common sense does a better job than getting into rules and regulations,” Supervisor Jim Nilsen said.

    Supervisors explored the ordinances in response to numerous complaints of excessive shooting.
    “We’ve had complaints of people blazing away for three hours,” township Manager Michael Brown said.

    Township solicitor Scott MacNair said what the supervisors decided on is not a prohibition against shooting, only the hours.

    Nilsen said there’s a solution if people are not abiding by safe shooting practices, such as not shooting over property lines, using inadequate or no back stops or not taking other obvious safety measures: “If they are being reckless, that is already covered by state law.”


    https://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-...4pe-story.html

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    LMT, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Springfield two bucks county discharge ordinance hearing

    So, any property owners up that way need a shooting buddy?
    To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    somewhere, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Springfield two bucks county discharge ordinance hearing

    Seems like another good reason to do away with the suppressor restrictions in NFA.

    It should be like:
    via Imgflip Meme Generator
    I am not a lawyer.

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