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Thread: PSP V Sama

  1. #1
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    Default PSP V Sama

    Good Morning All,

    First post - so bear with me. I'm also not a lawyer - so there's that.

    I'm looking for thoughts on the recent (21 May 19) decision of the Commonwealth Court in PSP V Sama https://law.justia.com/cases/pennsyl...-c-d-2018.html.

    The bottom line is that the Commonwealth Court ruled that a Delaware pardon removes all disabilities and since Sama was granted a pardon, PSP could not deny his PICS check.

    Sama contended that since he was fully pardoned he was no longer deemed "convicted" under the law - pretty straight forward, been discussed 1,000 times in this forum.

    My real question about this case lies with the PSP's argument. PSP contended that under PA 6105 (d)(2) even though Sama was granted a pardon, he would then have to submit a petition to the court of common pleas in the county in which he resides in order to obtain relief from his disability. If that is truly the case - is the PSP stating that even a person who has received a pardon AND expungement would still be a prohibited person until they petition the court of common pleas for relief from the firearms disability?

    At the end of the day the Commonwealth Court sided with Sama and the PA OAG - in my opinion stating that "a pardon is a pardon." What is concerning to me is that if the PSP were to appeal to the PA Supreme Court and they were to rule in favor of the PSP, would that then make people who were pardoned and had their record expunged prohibited persons again until they petition the court of common pleas for relief from disabilities?

    Also, does the fact that this is a Delaware pardon and not a PA pardon have any significance here?

    Thanks for your thoughts, hoping for a good discussion... don't hate me for being the new guy.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: PSP V Sama

    One would assume that if it were a Delaware crime coupled with a Delaware pardon, it would definitely have significance. Pennsylvania has no jurisdiction to deal with a Delaware case.

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    Default Re: PSP V Sama

    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    One would assume that if it were a Delaware crime coupled with a Delaware pardon, it would definitely have significance. Pennsylvania has no jurisdiction to deal with a Delaware case.
    Sorry, I probably didn't do the best job explaining that part of the question. What I meant to ask was if Delaware's pardon statutes are different than PA's - if they are more or less explicit on rights restored, if they automatically expunge, etc; and if that would have had an impact on this case.

    i.e. if Sema would have committed a PA crime and got a PA pardon, would the outcome of the case be different than it was with him committing a DE crime and getting a DE pardon.

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    Default Re: PSP V Sama

    4473 requires even though pardoned you must disclose that said person had been arrested at any one given time.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: PSP V Sama

    Quote Originally Posted by MARINE DIVISION TWO View Post
    4473 requires even though pardoned you must disclose that said person had been arrested at any one given time.
    Really? You might want to read through the 4473 instructions sometime... https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download
    Joshua Prince, Esq. - Firearms Industry Consulting Group - www.PaFirearmsLawyer.com

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    Default Re: PSP V Sama

    If his record was pardoned and expunged, how did the PSP know about the arrest and conviction?
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

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    Default Re: PSP V Sama

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    If his record was pardoned and expunged, how did the PSP know about the arrest and conviction?
    That costs extra to have it removed from the database if Im not mistaken. Happened to a friend.

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    Default Re: PSP V Sama

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    If his record was pardoned and expunged, how did the PSP know about the arrest and conviction?
    For some reason I thought it had to be expunged after the pardon was received but I cannot pinpoint what makes me think that.
    Where's Hunter?

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    Default Re: PSP V Sama

    Quote Originally Posted by bogey1 View Post
    That costs extra to have it removed from the database if Im not mistaken. Happened to a friend.
    Maybe I'm confused as to what "expunged" means.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: PSP V Sama

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Maybe I'm confused as to what "expunged" means.
    An expungement is a DA's version of a pardon but they can only expunge certain things. Even after a pardon is issued the DA needs to be advised to remove it from the records. And I'm not so sure that it's 100% removed at that.
    Where's Hunter?

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