Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    etters, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
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    Default Re: Trump spurns Dems on universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    "Except for when I do."


    Nice to hear it, but actions speak louder than words. Time will tell.
    yep. already betrayed us once.
    Firearms have only two enemies, rust and politicians.

  2. #22
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    lewistown, Pennsylvania
    (Mifflin County)
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    Default Re: Trump spurns Dems on universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by ditch View Post
    yep. already betrayed us once.
    If he sells out the 2a , I believe he is toast in 20.!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    Somewhere, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Trump spurns Dems on universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by 57springer View Post
    If he sells out the 2a , I believe he is toast in 20.!
    Nah. He wants to get re-elected and has a good chance at this point. The selling out part will happen once he has nothing to lose.
    "Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle"

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Dade City, Florida
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    Default Re: Trump spurns Dems on universal background checks

    Okay, so every sale needs a background check, such a thing should be easy enough in this day and age with an app. But the Dems can't just agree to that, no, they want to make you a criminal if you lend your firearm to your cousin or brother so he can go hunting. They want to make you a criminal if you let someone just shoot your gun at the range. And on and on and on with one restriction after another.
    NRA - Pa Rifle & Pistol Assn.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    somewhere, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Trump spurns Dems on universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    Okay, so every sale needs a background check, such a thing should be easy enough in this day and age with an app. But the Dems can't just agree to that, no, they want to make you a criminal if you lend your firearm to your cousin or brother so he can go hunting. They want to make you a criminal if you let someone just shoot your gun at the range. And on and on and on with one restriction after another.
    Barr's proposal is still just as inconvenient and intrusive as going to an FFL for every private transaction would be.

    More importantly, though, it would still create a registry. It might not be as obvious as other forms, but details of every gun transferred and who it transfers to would still be recorded on the required bill of sale.

    Gun info + Disposition info + Legal requirement for maintaining documentation of ownership = Registry

    It doesn't matter if the "registry" is distributed or centralized, if the government can compel registration compliance by threatening to impose civil or criminal penalties on those who refuse. It doesn't matter if the transfer "agent" isn't required to keep a copy. Many sellers would opt to have them do just that.

    Otherwise, private sellers would be on the hook for the potential misuse of an inanimate object by a third party, even if the third party wasn't a prohibited person at the time of transfer. This proposal would seem to make the material fact that a third party was not prohibited irrelevant--just failing to maintain the required documentation would incur a penalty. Maybe "civil" today and felony tomorrow.

    If you as a seller can't produce the bill of sale when they come knocking at your door, you're in for a bad day.

    Thus a registry is born.
    I am not a lawyer.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    Mohnton, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: Trump spurns Dems on universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by unclejumbo View Post
    I saw the same and was just looking to see if anyone posted it.

    A couple of things have me wondering what the law will be.

    First is the definition of commercial sales. We all know there are people out there that are unlicensed gun dealers. I saw one on GB who had hundreds of sales and stated he was not an FFL and if the receiving FFL required...yada, yada, yada. The point being, he was in the gun sales business. He could get jammed up for no having an FFL but I wonder if it applies to this type of individual only. Commercial sales implies business so somebody selling a gun they no longer want wouldn't be a "commercial" sale. That would mean an advertised non-commercial sale would fall outside of the regulation. So, as long as you don't have a side business buying and selling guns illegally without an FFL, then you would be exempt.

    What is the civil penalty?

    Seems that it might be a paper tiger since no criminal penalty and the "commercial sale" definition.
    We all know? I didn’t. People doing that face a felony 10 years in fed pen and 10,000 dollars fine. I believe for each occurrence. Why would this be ignored? Back in the Carter days they effed people up over much less than you describe.
    The Gun is the Badge of a Free Man

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    Mohnton, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: Trump spurns Dems on universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by buckengr View Post
    Barr's proposal is still just as inconvenient and intrusive as going to an FFL for every private transaction would be.

    More importantly, though, it would still create a registry. It might not be as obvious as other forms, but details of every gun transferred and who it transfers to would still be recorded on the required bill of sale.

    Gun info + Disposition info + Legal requirement for maintaining documentation of ownership = Registry

    It doesn't matter if the "registry" is distributed or centralized, if the government can compel registration compliance by threatening to impose civil or criminal penalties on those who refuse. It doesn't matter if the transfer "agent" isn't required to keep a copy. Many sellers would opt to have them do just that.

    Otherwise, private sellers would be on the hook for the potential misuse of an inanimate object by a third party, even if the third party wasn't a prohibited person at the time of transfer. This proposal would seem to make the material fact that a third party was not prohibited irrelevant--just failing to maintain the required documentation would incur a penalty. Maybe "civil" today and felony tomorrow.

    If you as a seller can't produce the bill of sale when they come knocking at your door, you're in for a bad day.

    Thus a registry is born.
    So get this. The atf is only allowed to keep jpg of the forms they get. Form gets scanned into pdf. PDF gets converted to jpg. Can only be searched by human eyes. Ha ha. Google has announced the development of A.I. enabled ocr on pictures. It will make those jpegs into instantly searchable database.
    The Gun is the Badge of a Free Man

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    Mohnton, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: Trump spurns Dems on universal background checks

    Barr is an anti 2A advocate. Q thinks he’s the bees knees. I think we’re artificially impregnated.
    The Gun is the Badge of a Free Man

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bucks Cty, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    65
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    Default Re: Trump spurns Dems on universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by 57springer View Post
    If he sells out the 2a , I believe he is toast in 20.!
    If hes toast, we are burnt toast.
    "In 4 TRUMP years or less, you will love how America looks....I GUARANTEE it."

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Belly of the BEAST, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Trump spurns Dems on universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunsnwater View Post
    So get this. The atf is only allowed to keep jpg of the forms they get. Form gets scanned into pdf. PDF gets converted to jpg. Can only be searched by human eyes. Ha ha. Google has announced the development of A.I. enabled ocr on pictures. It will make those jpegs into instantly searchable database.
    Ummm jpg have been searchable and A.I readable going on probably a decade. What do you think Captchas security bot verification is for... thats AI training.. and using random people to do it.

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