Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
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    NA, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: Walmart Open Carry 9/14

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneCC View Post
    I don't know the particulars of trespass, defiant trespass and PA case law on open carry and CCWs.
    I’m not a lawyer, but I feel I have an adequate understanding of the law to offer a response.

    In PA, a “no guns allowed” sign does not carry the weight of law, it is merely a statement of store policy. By law, you are not required to abide by the sign, however, a store owner/manager/employee is fully within their rights to ask you to leave for non-compliance of the posted store policy. At that point, you ARE required to leave. If you refuse to leave or cause a scene, you can be cited for defiant trespass.

    AFAIK, Walmart has not yet posted signs, not that it makes a difference in PA.

    In other states, where the sign DOES carry weight, the law stipulates the size, colors and location requirements for the sign in order for it to comply and be enforced. So no sign up yet means “no gun” policy is not enforceable...yet.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Walmart Open Carry 9/14

    I checked on my way in to work again.
    No signage up at this store.
    Pittsburgh GROUP SHOOT - Eat BACON!!! Shoot PUMPKINS!!! Oct 19, 2019 - INFO HERE

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mill Hall, Pennsylvania
    (Clinton County)
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    Default Re: Walmart Open Carry 9/14

    That'll teach 'em.
    Open carry your guns while you give them more of your money.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    μολ ν λαβέ
    What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Palmyra, Pennsylvania
    (Lebanon County)
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    444024

    Default Re: Walmart Open Carry 9/14

    'That'll teach 'em.
    Open carry your guns while you give them more of your money.'

    take his reasoning into account...someone has to 'test the waters' as sort of a litmus test; from what I read individual store managers can enforce the corporate recommendation as they see fit; as I see it Tioga County is a large sportsmens' area...piss off the local population & lose a big chunk of business;

    flip the locale...Walmart in a heavy suburban/urban area & there is possibly alot less populace that embrace firearms & asking a patron to leave has a smaller impact

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Walmart Open Carry 9/14

    I don't think anyone knows the "policy" yet beyond what they have stated publicly about requesting that people refrain from open carry.

    Corporate has stated that they have instructed management team members on how to approach anyone open carrying, but I've yet to see anything more.
    My manager wasn't working this weekend, or I would have asked, and the "greeter" was always too busy to ask her what she's been told to do.



    Side note: Ammo shelves are still pretty well stocked, so there's no big rush to buy it up before it's gone.

    Frankly, I think 99% of the general public know nothing about this new change/policy and likely 75% of gun owners as well.
    It was announced with a "roar" and the outrage faded away practically overnight.
    Pittsburgh GROUP SHOOT - Eat BACON!!! Shoot PUMPKINS!!! Oct 19, 2019 - INFO HERE

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    ..............., Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Walmart Open Carry 9/14

    Quote Originally Posted by PickingPA View Post
    I’m not a lawyer, but I feel I have an adequate understanding of the law to offer a response.

    In PA, a “no guns allowed” sign does not carry the weight of law, it is merely a statement of store policy. By law, you are not required to abide by the sign, however, a store owner/manager/employee is fully within their rights to ask you to leave for non-compliance of the posted store policy. At that point, you ARE required to leave. If you refuse to leave or cause a scene, you can be cited for defiant trespass.

    AFAIK, Walmart has not yet posted signs, not that it makes a difference in PA.

    In other states, where the sign DOES carry weight, the law stipulates the size, colors and location requirements for the sign in order for it to comply and be enforced. So no sign up yet means “no gun” policy is not enforceable...yet.
    The typical Force of Law is through the trespass statute in Pa ( 18 Pa CS 3503 ) and the signs provide the essential element of notification. Staying after being asked to leave once you enter contrary to signage is a grading enhancement elevating the violation from a summary charge to an M3.

    Ignoring conditions of entry (sign) could result in an immediate trespass charge which, unless you refuse to leave if directly ordered, is a summary offense (Max $300 and/or 90 days). The more likely result of being discovered is simply being asked to leave due to pragmatics but that does not foreclose the possibility that you will be cited without being further asked to leave.

    Pa does not prescribe exacting posting specifications for the signage - only that it be "posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders; ". Whether the signage in any particular instance qualifies is a matter for the trier-of-fact in a court proceeding.
    Last edited by tl_3237; September 16th, 2019 at 12:10 PM.
    IANAL

  7. #17
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    Nov 2014
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    Default Re: Walmart Open Carry 9/14

    Some day they will get around to uniformly banning OC in all there locations. It will just take a while.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Ercildoun, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Walmart Open Carry 9/14

    Someone needs to open carry in Walmart without an LTCF to see if the State of Emergency applies in a gun free zone.
    Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Middle of PA, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Walmart Open Carry 9/14

    Hey...your idea. You go first!
    Psalms 73:26

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Walmart Open Carry 9/14

    I suspect this will work a lot like the "NO PETS - Service Animals Only" signs work.

    People bring pets into the store more than you'd think.
    Occasionally, you'll see a leash/harness marked "service animal", but mostly it's just a pet.
    Nobody says a word.
    Pittsburgh GROUP SHOOT - Eat BACON!!! Shoot PUMPKINS!!! Oct 19, 2019 - INFO HERE

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