Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #71
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    Default Re: NEW BILL WOULD REQUIRE GUN OWNERS TO GET 5 YEAR FEDERAL LICENSE

    How about we just actually enforce the existing gun laws, and not plead down and give probation to those that break those laws? I'm reminded of the story that I posted hear previously about the heroin addict that stole her father's guns and sold them. Her punishment? House arrest and $4000 in restitution. The justice system is broken, but hey, let's keep putting more obstacles in the way of those that actually follow the law, because that will solve all the problems.

    The majority of cases where someone went on a killing spree, there were clear signs and failures along the way to actually do something before it happened. I'm not in favor of redflag laws, as we know they will be abused, but there are many cases where someone knew the person was prone to violence and did nothing. It isn't that they couldn't have done something without the red flag laws in place, they just didn't do anything.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: NEW BILL WOULD REQUIRE GUN OWNERS TO GET 5 YEAR FEDERAL LICENSE

    or the record, without going in to too much detail, my family has been heavily affected by gun violence.... the shooter was my best friend and close relative, and he shouldn't have had the gun. I loved him....but he shouldn't have had the gun.
    So was it the governments responsibility to know what his mindset was or that of those around and closest to him? If he was legally 302'ed then he would not have had the gun legally.

    If he was and did get it legally then that shows complete failure of the NICS system and the state and federal government. If he purchased it illegally then what could anyone have done outside of those around him who knew his mindset?

    If his deepening troubles were ignored by those around him and he was able to purchase the firearm legally then how was there a failure in the current system?

    There is no easy answer because there is no one single answer or law that can prevent any of this. It's a complex problem with an equally complex answer, and banning a style of firearm or requiring a license to own one solve it either.
    Last edited by Hodgie; September 15th, 2019 at 01:19 PM.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: NEW BILL WOULD REQUIRE GUN OWNERS TO GET 5 YEAR FEDERAL LICENSE

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    How about we just actually enforce the existing gun laws, and not plead down and give probation to those that break those laws? I'm reminded of the story that I posted hear previously about the heroin addict that stole her father's guns and sold them. Her punishment? House arrest and $4000 in restitution. The justice system is broken, but hey, let's keep putting more obstacles in the way of those that actually follow the law, because that will solve all the problems.

    The majority of cases where someone went on a killing spree, there were clear signs and failures along the way to actually do something before it happened. I'm not in favor of redflag laws, as we know they will be abused, but there are many cases where someone knew the person was prone to violence and did nothing. It isn't that they couldn't have done something without the red flag laws in place, they just didn't do anything.
    Almost every single one of them since the Denver movie theater shooting.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: NEW BILL WOULD REQUIRE GUN OWNERS TO GET 5 YEAR FEDERAL LICENSE

    obviously this bill has little chance of passing and would create absolute hell for politicians if it did.
    it's always nice to see them being more honest with what they desire. i bet those revokations would be ex parte and would be based off social media among other "social score" factors.
    not to mention you'd have one or two rogue fed employees with an axe to grind, randomly picking owners to revoke just to make their anti-gun statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeSteve View Post
    I don't know the details of Booker's "plan".... so I'm not judging anything. When reading something about any gun control proposal on a forum, I always fully expect it to be twisted to make it sound worse than what it is. I love my guns, have hunted and collected all my life, and have started my children shooting from 5 years old (with heavy supervision obviously). I don't like where we are today. Special interest groups (largely the NRA, who I canceled my membership with) have put immense amounts of work and money into creating an us vs them mentality, where gun owners think if we give up the right for a 19 year old kid who has zero training and a criminal record to walk in and buy an AR-15 and 12 mags, it's a "slippery slope" to taking my great grandpa's exposed hammer SxS 12 gauge off my fireplace. It's just not. We NEED common sense gun laws. I don't know about Booker's plan, but I know we need something happening. I think some version of making sure people who are buying guns know how to safely fire them and have good intentions is a reasonable place to start.
    https://www.thoughtco.com/us-gun-con...meline-3963620
    nope, no slippery slope there. no standard set for future infringements.

    many see the NRA as being the voice of reason, all too willing to "negotiate" how much of the freedom will be taken. so it is amusing to see someone with the opposite mentality.

    everyone else has covered any other points i might make.
    except, giving government, ESPECIALLY federal government, control over our lives runs contrary to every single drop of Americanism we shed blood to gain.
    if you want to be a serf, many nations are still welcoming new slaves.
    Last edited by fallenleader; September 15th, 2019 at 01:27 PM.
    "Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” – John Stark

  5. #75
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    lewistown, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: NEW BILL WOULD REQUIRE GUN OWNERS TO GET 5 YEAR FEDERAL LICENSE

    One thing that only recently is getting talked about are " juvenile records " . If these don't show up on a background check when the proposed purchaser is an adult , it is a big problem that needs fixed !

  6. #76
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    My Farm away from crazy people, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: NEW BILL WOULD REQUIRE GUN OWNERS TO GET 5 YEAR FEDERAL LICENSE

    There are a lot of the complexities of this issue that have been mentioned in the last few posts....which are all very valid and generally contradicting points... which make this such a hard subject to solve:
    Prison cost and fairness,
    The personal rights of the mentally ill (and potentially mentally ill.... and the "who's right is it to declare someone else mentally ill"),
    The rights of felon's who have served their time,
    The rights of the wrongfully convicted,
    The rights of parents who don't want their children shot in a Target or at church or school,
    The rights of people to own whateverthehell they want to own,
    The rights of gun shops and manufacturers to make a profit,
    The rights of cops who have to do their jobs in a dangerous environment,
    Original intent constitutional arguments vs living document arguments (one of my farthest right wing buddies insists that if he could afford to put a nuclear weapon in his back yard, he should be allowed to do it bc he should have the right to defend himself against a tyrannical gov't. - I believe we'd have problems if 300,000 american citizens had backyard nukes),
    Due process arguments (go around it, save a life --- save that life, and it's arguable that the person in question never would have done anything and they were persecuted without reason)....

    People quickly get mad at anyone who doesn't agree with their individual right that they happen to care about, and most don't understand that their right is stepping on someone else's right. No matter which side you're on, your right and belief generally steps on someone else's. That makes this an incredibly difficult subject - but it's important. And, it's a sign (either way we go) of who we are as a society.

    I will read that national review article.... can't right now, headed out for the 19th anniversary with the wife, but will come back to it tonight or tomorrow. Always up for an interesting article.

    I appreciate the reasonable discussion from those of you who contributed reasonably.
    Last edited by BuckeyeSteve; September 15th, 2019 at 01:42 PM.

  7. #77
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    Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: NEW BILL WOULD REQUIRE GUN OWNERS TO GET 5 YEAR FEDERAL LICENSE

    One last comment: paragraphs are your friend. Wall of text posts tend to be ignored because they are hard to read.
    Illegitimus non carborundum est

  8. #78
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    Default Re: NEW BILL WOULD REQUIRE GUN OWNERS TO GET 5 YEAR FEDERAL LICENSE

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeSteve View Post
    There are a lot of the complexities of this issue that have been mentioned in the last few posts....which are all very valid and generally contradicting points... which make this such a hard subject to solve. Prison cost and fairness, the personal rights of the mentally ill (and potentially mentally ill.... and the "who's right is it to declare someone else mentally ill"), the rights of felon's who have served their time, the rights of the wrongfully convicted, the rights of parents who don't want their children shot in a Target or at church or school, the rights of people to own whateverthehell they want to own, the rights of gun shops and manufacturers to make a profit, the rights of cops who have to do their jobs in a dangerous environment, original intent constitutional arguments vs living document arguments (one of my farthest right wing buddies insists that if he could afford to put a nuclear weapon in his back yard, he should be allowed to do it bc he should have the right to defend himself against a tyrannical gov't. - I believe we'd have problems if 300,000 american citizens had backyard nukes), due process arguments (go around it, save a life --- save that life, and it's arguable that the person in question never would have done anything and they were persecuted without reason).... people quickly get mad at anyone who doesn't agree with their individual right that they happen to care about, and most don't understand that their right is stepping on someone else's right. No matter which side you're on, your right and belief generally steps on someone else's. That makes this an incredibly difficult subject - but it's important. And, it's a sign (either way we go) of who we are as a society.
    i will read that national review article.... can't right now, headed out for the 19th anniversary with the wife, but will come back to it tonight or tomorrow. Always up for an interesting article.
    I appreciate the reasonable discussion from those of you who contributed reasonably.
    The fact that you never mentioned the right to defend ones self is very telling. Going right into hyperbole says even more.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  9. #79
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    Nov 2017
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    Default Re: NEW BILL WOULD REQUIRE GUN OWNERS TO GET 5 YEAR FEDERAL LICENSE

    Quote Originally Posted by gghbi View Post
    One last comment: paragraphs are your friend. Wall of text posts tend to be ignored because they are hard to read.
    Noted and corrected... thanks. As said earlier, I don't spend much time on forums.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: NEW BILL WOULD REQUIRE GUN OWNERS TO GET 5 YEAR FEDERAL LICENSE

    .

    all explained here



    Ecclesiastes 10:2 ........... United States v. Cruikshank

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