Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    carbon cty, Pennsylvania
    (Carbon County)
    Posts
    1,568
    Rep Power
    21474847

    Default The Futility of a Gun Buyback

    .
    The Futility of a Gun Buyback


    Before you ask how many Americans will give up their guns, ask how many cops will even try to take them.




    Gun bans are back in the news again, with the 2020 Democratic field lining up behind the (old, already-tried-and-failed) idea of a ban on the AR-15, the AK-47, and any other gun that looks remotely "military."

    The most aggressive recent version of this proposal was floated by a certain Texan who's currently sinking in the polls, and it includes a mandatory buyback. When asked if he plans to actually take away people's guns, Beto O'Rourke replied: "I want to be really clear that that's exactly what we are going to do. Americans who own AR-15s, AK-47s, will have to sell them to the government."

    Meghan McCain's response to O'Rourke on The View—"if you're talking about taking people's guns from them, there's going to be a lot of violence"—and Tucker Carlson's subsequent pile-on (that it'll spark a "new Civil War") sent the usual suspects straight to the fainting couch, pearls in hand.

    Media Matters has already put out two pieces on the remarks, one focused on Carlson and a breathless followup focused more generally on "right-wing media" reactions to the proposed gun ban.

    HuffPost reporter Zach Carter accused McCain of "mainstreaming apocalyptic thinking." (One wonders what he thinks of HuffPost headlines like "Are We Heading Toward Extinction?") Crooks & Liars amped everything up another notch by claiming Carlson's rhetoric about the danger of gun confiscation is itself dangerous.

    Before we go any further with the back-and-forth about armed resistance, let's think about the reaction we can realistically expect to a watered-down AR-15 ban, with no mandatory buyback.

    How many gun owners would either hand over or destroy their assault weapons? And how many of the authorities whose job it would be to put refusers in jail would even try to enforce a ban?

    We don't have to look to New Zealand's recent flop of a mandatory buyback, where less than 10 percent of the country's estimated number of newly banned weapons have been handed over so far, to answer those questions. There's a great case study right here in the bluest of blue states: New York.

    Gov. Andrew Cuomo hailed the 2013 New York SAFE Act as the toughest gun control law in the nation, and one of its most important provisions was the mandatory registration of all "assault weapons" in the state.

    This isn't a confiscation or even a ban, so it's nowhere near as severe as what O'Rourke and others are pushing—it's just a teeny weeny little registration requirement.

    So how has that worked out? Well, according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation's conservative estimate, New Yorkers owned about 1 million "assault weapons" at the time the ban was passed. So the 44,000 that were actually registered are about 4 percent of the total.

    This noncompliance with the law is widespread and mostly open, but the police aren't doing much about it. For instance, Hudson Valley One reported in 2016:

    Upstate police agencies have also demonstrated a marked lack of enthusiasm for enforcing the ban on assault weapons and large-capacity magazines. According to statistics compiled by the state Department of Criminal Justice Services, there have been just 11 arrests for failure to register an otherwise-legal assault weapon since the SAFE Act took effect in March 2013 and 62 for possession of a large capacity magazine.

    In Ulster County, where 463 assault weapons have been registered, there have been just three arrests for possession of large-capacity magazines and none for failure to register an assault weapon. Ulster County Sheriff Paul VanBlarcum has been a vocal critic of the law; he said he believed large numbers of Ulster County gun owners had chosen to ignore the registration requirement.

    I could give several more examples of such reporting. But the upshot is that gun owners are overwhelmingly ignoring the law—and the police are overwhelmingly looking the other way.

    A 2017 article from NYU law professor James Jacobs sums up the state of play. After detailing the electoral damage the backlash against the act did to New York Dems—"In 2014, Governor Andrew Cuomo was reelected by a much diminished majority and Republicans regained control of the State Senate"—Jacobs concludes that the "SAFE Act's impact on gun crime, suicides and accidents has never been seriously assessed, although both gun control proponents and gun rights advocates make extravagant claims. In truth, there seems little likelihood that the SAFE Act has had much, if any, effect since it has been only partially implemented, almost completely unenforced, and widely ignored. Its various provisions are easily circumvented" (emphasis mine).

    New Yorkers are famous for their attitude, but this local police pushback on state and federal gun laws is not at all limited to New York. Nor is it a recent development. In 2013, for example, NBC reported on local sheriffs from Maryland to Colorado who publicly touted their refusal to enforce any gun laws they feel infringe on the Constitution.

    The growing Second Amendment Sanctuary movement, active in California, New Mexico, Oregon, and a handful of other states, is being led by local law enforcement.

    If you're one of my many pro–gun control friends, you're no doubt offended at the spectacle of local police officials and city governments flat-out refusing to enforce democratically legislated marijuana laws…sorry, I mean immigration laws…oops, I mean gun laws.

    I totally get that. When I read a quote like the following, there is indeed a part of me that thinks that if this radical insurrectionist loves cops and hates democracy this much, then maybe he should move to Hong Kong: "When [a prominent politician] kind of goes after these phantom sanctuary cities and talks about how bad they are, basically what he's going after is police chiefs.

    And I trust police chiefs, in terms of knowing what should be done to keep their communities safer, and police departments and mayors, a lot more than I trust [that Washington politician]."

    Oh, no—I got mixed up again. That was former Democratic vice presidential nominee Tim Kaine, in a 2016 CNN interview on the topic of immigration sanctuary cities, and the politician he was criticizing is Donald Trump.

    My point, other than the fact that hypocrisy around federalism is depressingly bipartisan, is not that it's either good or bad for local cops to veto laws.

    My point is that regardless of what you think of the gun owners who won't comply or the cops who'll inevitably let them off without even a verbal warning, there is no gun registration, gun ban, or gun confiscation that a U.S. Congress can pass and a U.S. president can sign that will be even close to fully complied with or enforced. Not one.

    That isn't a boast or a threat. It's just a prediction, and a fairly safe one.

    So the question I have for everyone who still wants to go down this road is this: What will you do in the face of the inevitable mass noncompliance? What is your Plan B?

    Is the next step increased penalties for lawbreakers? If so, then how will you catch these lawbreakers in order to penalize them if the cops aren't interested in going after them?

    Is your plan to go after the police, then? Would you declare war on any local sheriffs and even state police who ignore the law? If this stood a realistic chance of happening, you'd think they'd do it in New York, of all places. But a lot of that state's cops have been openly ignoring the country's "toughest" gun law, and we've heard crickets.

    Or maybe you plan to escalate to door-to-door confiscation as a last resort.

    In that case, I think Meghan McCain's prediction of violence is about as safe as my prediction of mass noncompliance and law enforcement nullification. There would probably be a lot of ugliness and not a few dead bodies, not to mention a massive waste of the political capital of any party pushing the police into a shooting war with even a relatively small number of AR-15-owning bitter enders.

    Even if you think gun owners are bluffing and will hand 'em over peacefully when the time comes, you'd risk a violent escalation of America's worsening culture war solely for the sake of outlawing a category of weapons that are involved in the low triple-digits of U.S. deaths in any given year? Really?

    This doesn't seem rational to me. It seems more like the kind of culture-war red meat you throw out there when you're trying to revive a flagging presidential campaign.
    https://reason.com/2019/09/05/the-fu...a-gun-buyback/
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 ........... United States v. Cruikshank

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    NA, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
    Posts
    150
    Rep Power
    21474838

    Default Re: The Futility of a Gun Buyback

    I don’t know any cops who would willingly participate in door to door confiscation. A large percentage of cops (in PA at least) are pro-2A and likely have their own privately held munitions. A gun confiscation order would create a moral/constitutional crisis for millions of cops who would also be considering the risks of following such an order.

    I cant stand Megan McCain, but she’s right. Tucker is right too, but being right is on par for him

    Mostly the NJ/NY/MD Nazi cops would get all jacked up for knocking down doors over this garbage. And why is that? Because the 2A is already so watered down in those states that tyranny reins and the govt (LE) considers itself beyond reproach.
    Last edited by PickingPA; September 7th, 2019 at 08:43 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Dade City, Florida
    Posts
    696
    Rep Power
    11825581

    Default Re: The Futility of a Gun Buyback

    The politicians who are for this need to ask themselves how many casualties are they willing to take in this quest. Let's say there are 70 million "assault weapon" owners in this country. One third of them will participate and turn their guns in, one third will do little or nothing , and the last third will start shooting back. So that's over 20 million gun owners who will fight this unconstitutional action and that means a lot of blood could be flowing in the streets.
    NRA - Pa Rifle & Pistol Assn.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Dade City, Florida
    Posts
    696
    Rep Power
    11825581

    Default Re: The Futility of a Gun Buyback

    Quote Originally Posted by middlefinger View Post
    Great article, thanks for posting it.
    NRA - Pa Rifle & Pistol Assn.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chester County, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    4,149
    Rep Power
    21474847

    Default Re: The Futility of a Gun Buyback

    The question of whether or not law enforcement will do door to door confiscations is a wild card. My guess is that they would follow the orders of those that pay them and hold their pensions and benefits over them. Many if not most of these guys have to think about their families. Also, the Feds have many, many layers of law enforcement that could be repurposed for door to door confiscation including BATF, DEA, FBI, DHS, IRS, EPA, etc. Many agencies that are non LEO have police branches.

    The first guy that goes to jail for a long time that is caught with "illegal" guns will have a ripple effect to all the others, and people will turn them in en masse, so the Feds may not even have to worry about repurposing LEO's.
    Pilot321, the Un-Woke

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    reading, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Posts
    25
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: The Futility of a Gun Buyback

    My concern being retired military on social security. All my income now comes from the government. Would not surprise me if the a$$hats figure out a way to suspend my income until I comply (which I will NOT).

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Belly of the BEAST, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    902
    Rep Power
    16526107

    Default Re: The Futility of a Gun Buyback

    Quote Originally Posted by PickingPA View Post
    I don’t know any cops who would willingly participate in door to door confiscation. A large percentage of cops (in PA at least) are pro-2A and likely have their own privately held munitions. A gun confiscation order would create a moral/constitutional crisis for millions of cops who would also be considering the risks of following such an order.

    I cant stand Megan McCain, but she’s right. Tucker is right too, but being right is on par for him

    Mostly the NJ/NY/MD Nazi cops would get all jacked up for knocking down doors over this garbage. And why is that? Because the 2A is already so watered down in those states that tyranny reins and the govt (LE) considers itself beyond reproach.
    They wont be told they are kicking in the door just cause he has guns...

    They will do it because they are told hes a terrorist, hes mentally unstable, and its for the safety of your children.

    They will do it and they will act like HEROS for it!
    Then they will parade them around on the news with pictures of there badass 'bust', and pin shiney new stickers to their chests.
    They get a pat on the back and the circle jerk faps on.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Belly of the BEAST, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    902
    Rep Power
    16526107

    Default Re: The Futility of a Gun Buyback

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot321 View Post
    The question of whether or not law enforcement will do door to door confiscations is a wild card. My guess is that they would follow the orders of those that pay them and hold their pensions and benefits over them. Many if not most of these guys have to think about their families.
    This.

    Look at EmptyMag(nothing against you EM) hes actively working for and supporting a company thats actively trying to trample his and our rights, for a paycheck to survive.
    Itll be just another day at the office for them like my previous post.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chester County, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    4,149
    Rep Power
    21474847

    Default Re: The Futility of a Gun Buyback

    Quote Originally Posted by icp4life162005 View Post
    This.

    Look at EmptyMag(nothing against you EM) hes actively working for and supporting a company thats actively trying to trample his and our rights, for a paycheck to survive.
    Itll be just another day at the office for them like my previous post.
    As I said in another post, the first guy that goes to jail for a LONG time for having an illegal firearm will create a ripple effect for other guns owners. They will turn them in as there will be another "amnesty" period announced, and most people don't want to do jail time, let alone many years of jail time.
    Pilot321, the Un-Woke

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Berks County, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Posts
    1,850
    Rep Power
    16999119

    Default Re: The Futility of a Gun Buyback

    Quote Originally Posted by gp52555 View Post
    My concern being retired military on social security. All my income now comes from the government. Would not surprise me if the a$$hats figure out a way to suspend my income until I comply (which I will NOT).
    I had not considered this. It seems like an avenue that could be exploited.

    OTOH, it seems federal, state, and local authorities can barely keep their heads above water with their current responsibilities. How will they be able to perform any kind of confiscation? Prioritize it above all else? That in itself would likely cause a huge increase in criminal activity.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Coatesville Gun Buyback
    By lemko in forum Pennsylvania
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: March 24th, 2013, 07:43 AM
  2. LA BuyBack Program
    By mike_yorkPA in forum National
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: May 17th, 2010, 12:25 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Local gun shops | Local shooting ranges | Philadelphia Shooting Ranges | Philadelphia Gun Shops | Pittsburgh Shooting Ranges | Pittsburgh Gun Shops