Question about background checks

[OwnTheRide]

I am having a discussion about background checks with my brother. He is for them, I am against. He wants background checks to keep illegal immigrants and terrorists from getting guns.

I have a response put together but want to make sure I hit all the bases. What federal laws are there that already exist that make it illegal for illegal immigrants and terrorist to buy guns? (I’ve already pointed out that immigration laws have not kept illegal immigrant from entering the country legally just like background checks would not keep criminals from getting guns if they really want them)

Thanks in advance.


Edit to add..... He is not an anti and generally very strong on gun rights.

Don't forget to argue from the point of what could happen - or, "better" yet, what has happened.

Here in PRNY, we have had universal background checks in place for ~5 years. When it comes to personal transfers, the law caps the fee an FFL can charge at $10... but the law does not require FFLs to perform the transfer. Not surprisingly, FFLs don't want to bother with the headaches and requirements of a transfer for a whopping $10. So the net result is as follows:

- Many FFLs will simply not perform private transfers, which can make it difficult to legally perform a private transfer
- The FFLs that will perform private transfers come up with "processing fees" or similar things on top of the $10 fee, making private transfers typically cost $50 or more per gun. Which, since you're buying a used gun, can be a significant percentage of the price.

In my mind, this reaches and exceeds the definition of infringement.

The thing with universal background checks is that there is no reason we can't implement them in a way that addresses everyone's concerns. Well, actually, there is one reason, and that reason is because the antis want to use it as a backdoor gun registration. We don't need FFLs involved in the process at all. We don't need bound books and seven years of record storage. These are all outdated systems from decades ago. We need a phone number or web address that anyone can access, input the recipient's info, and give us positive confirmation (a receipt, optionally stored on the BGC system) that we performed the check. No data storage beyond that.

[Emptymag]

If private sales conducted legally are stopped and everyone is forced to use an FFL to transfer all guns, what do you think that will do to stop illegals and terrorists from getting guns?
Are they simply not going to buy guns - from anyone?

Fantasy Land - they will buy guns just like they do now - illegally.

[GunLawyer001]

If private sales conducted legally are stopped and everyone is forced to use an FFL to transfer all guns, what do you think that will do to stop illegals and terrorists from getting guns?
Are they simply not going to buy guns - from anyone?

Fantasy Land - they will buy guns just like they do now - illegally.

After car makers started including better anti-theft systems, criminals figured out that the easiest way to steal a car would be to wait until the owner showed up with the keys. That's why "carjackings" became a big thing, as an unintended consequence of better anti-theft technology.

Let's say that the Feds shove 30 state choices to the curb and ban all private sales of used guns, and the usual stolen guns aren't enough for criminal needs. Then what? Terrorists who need more guns will simply show up to the gun ranges, wait for a lone shooter to arrive, then shoot him in the back of the head and take his guns.

This will strike most of the woke SJW's as a good thing, but fuck them.

[Berncly]

The same people that want to register and confiscate the guns of the lawful citizenry, are also actively promoting open borders and zero border enforcement.
Even when we protect our borders we can't keep the drugs out, and drug addicts can buy illegal drugs in every city and town in America.

Open borders means contraband interdiction becomes next to impossible, and our country will be flooded with every manner of illegal products including illegal guns.
Guns will flow over the border just like the drugs do now, and we will turn into Mexico with illegally armed gangs terrorizing a defenseless disarmed lawful populace.

[Brick]

You can also explain to your brother that during FY 2017 out of the millions of FBI background checks there were 112K+ denials of those only a bit more than 12K were investigated by ATF field offices and from that group on 12 were prosecuted by US Atty's offices. See GAO Report "LAW ENFORCEMENT Few Individuals Denied Firearms Purchases Are Prosecuted and ATF Should Assess Use of Warning Notices in Lieu of Prosecutions: Dated September 2018 Report # GAO 18-440. It is available online.

IF those "prohibited persons" who Try and Lie aren't prosecuted for the crime what good is the law?

[Carnes]

I was an 'undocumented immigrant' in Iraq. I had some guns, so they felt justified to call me a foreign invader, shoot at me, blow me up, and otherwise try to exterminate me.

I say we open up shops where we give free guns to any undocumented immigrants to the US. Maybe we can get them a uniform too? But, then again, if they are not uninformed, they get less protection under international law... Yeah, just give them guns... then, every US citizen could exercise their duty to resist armed invaders.

Heh.

[jthrelf]

Ask your brother if he feels the government should mandate you pay a fee and dictate the manner in which he is able to borrow some of your personal property. Because that's what will happen if this initiative passes and he wants to borrow a rifle or shotgun from you. Then ask if that makes anyone safer. Then ask if criminals will go through the same procedure.

[Brick]

I was an 'undocumented immigrant' in Iraq.
Heh.

But you weren't an immigrant, undocumented or otherwise, since you had NO intention of staying there permanently and no intention of working towards citizenship or adopting their culture as your own.

[Carnes]

But you weren't an immigrant, undocumented or otherwise, since you had NO intention of staying there permanently and no intention of working towards citizenship or adopting their culture as your own.

Ha, you got me... or something.

[HKusp 45]

But you weren't an immigrant, undocumented or otherwise, since you had NO intention of staying there permanently and no intention of working towards citizenship or adopting their culture as your own.

Pretty sure the ones that are still have no intention of adopting our culture or becoming citizens either. Staying permanently well that pretty much speaks for itself.