****PAFOA Representation**** Harrisburg Capitol Building, 9/24 and 9/25

[PA_Robert]

Right now, what we're doing PLUS trying to get a permanent presence at the capitol established (being led by Berncly).

All of this talk about buying PAFOA and making it something bigger is 99% moot as I'll likely never hear anything back.

All right, I'm with ya...

but again is FoP a PAC if it were to come into existence? if it is...can "it" be a permanent presence at the capitol?

I'm just not understanding the need for something "new".

PAFOA is an on line forum full of information and event planning

Berncly is working with FOAC and we will get some us Poofa's (private citizens) to be the presence at the capitol.

The owner of PAFOA has granted us permission to use the PAFOA logo to promote his website/forum. Bringing more people to the forum helps him and helps spread information and getting people involved.

I see all bases covered..other than the weak point of the poofa forum owner pulling the rug out if he chooses

[Justin///M]

All right, I'm with ya...

but again is FoP a PAC if it were to come into existence? if it is...can "it" be a permanent presence at the capitol?

I'm just not understanding the need for something "new".

PAFOA is an on line forum full of information and event planning

Berncly is working with FOAC and we will get some us Poofa's (private citizens) to be the presence at the capitol.

The owner of PAFOA has granted us permission to use the PAFOA logo to promote his website/forum. Bringing more people to the forum helps him and helps spread information and getting people involved.

I see all bases covered..other than the weak point of the poofa forum owner pulling the rug out if he chooses

We are extremely limited in what we can do without full rights to the site and trademarks, certain financial protections, and such. If this is all we're ever to be, then yes, all the bases are covered, I guess. We can be so much more if we were allowed to properly raise funds, have a proper board, etc. It gives people other options to chose their level of involvement.

[fallenleader]

All right, I'm with ya...

but again is FoP a PAC if it were to come into existence? if it is...can "it" be a permanent presence at the capitol?

I'm just not understanding the need for something "new".

PAFOA is an on line forum full of information and event planning

Berncly is working with FOAC and we will get some us Poofa's (private citizens) to be the presence at the capitol.

The owner of PAFOA has granted us permission to use the PAFOA logo to promote his website/forum. Bringing more people to the forum helps him and helps spread information and getting people involved.

I see all bases covered..other than the weak point of the poofa forum owner pulling the rug out if he chooses

start with gun owners regularly showing up at the capitol to meet and greet reps, reminding them that we are here and not going away.
then worry about orgs, pacs, etc.

that's how i see it. we're organizing getting people to actually show up outside of having a few weeks notice to gather hundreds.
one two or 5 people, when they can, showing up. getting a routine and spreading the load out so there are as few gaps in attendance as possible.

all because we don't have someone paid to live there lobbying for us.
in reality it has little to do with any group or org outside of 2A, poofa is just the largest gathering for chatter to set it up.

then again, this is just my observation.

Edit: a good example, i;m not driving 3hrs to the capitol to meet reps in snow/ice, so organizing who is local to cover it in not so great weather.
although we should also be making the effort to hit their local offices more frequently.

[longcall911]

start with gun owners regularly showing up at the capitol to meet and greet reps, reminding them that we are here and not going away.
then worry about orgs, pacs, etc.

Agree 100%.

There is a huge difference between getting people to show up for a rally versus lobbying. Hell, for many in this thread, attending the hearings was the first time they were even inside the building.

Volunteer lobbyists get bored after a few visits and quit. Those that do stay, often say stupid shit.

So, training and motivation are key to a successful program.

Most important, to actually talk with a lawmaker you need to either be a constituent or an official representative of an organization that has members in his district. If you are neither, why would they waste their time? I'm not sure that 'Friends of' meets that criteria. As an official subset of FOAC with business cards (even those printed on a decent home computer) we've got a fighting chance. A conversation starts with "My name is so-and-so with FOAC. We have about 400 members in your district.". This is key. If you can't tell them how many people you have in their district, you will be ushered out rather quickly.

BTW: if routinely lobbying and not under another organization's credentials, we need to register as a lobbyist group or risk fines. https://www.palobbyingservices.pa.gov/

[Gripsafety]

Agree 100%.

There is a huge difference between getting people to show up for a rally versus lobbying. Hell, for many in this thread, attending the hearings was the first time they were even inside the building.

Volunteer lobbyists get bored after a few visits and quit. Those that do stay, often say stupid shit.

So, training and motivation are key to a successful program.

Most important, to actually talk with a lawmaker you need to either be a constituent or an official representative of an organization that has members in his district. If you are neither, why would they waste their time? I'm not sure that 'Friends of' meets that criteria. As an official subset of FOAC with business cards (even those printed on a decent home computer) we've got a fighting chance. A conversation starts with "My name is so-and-so with FOAC. We have about 400 members in your district.". This is key. If you can't tell them how many people you have in their district, you will be ushered out rather quickly.

BTW: if routinely lobbying and not under another organization's credentials, we need to register as a lobbyist group or risk fines. https://www.palobbyingservices.pa.gov/

We should not overlook the fact that having a constituent with him gets one of the "pro's" access to lawmakers or senior staff. I have done this in the past, and all it required was being there and being on the same page as the FOAC pro. Do this a few times and you might become a pro too. This is a perfect way to break in new people. It would be great if there was someone on call from every house and senate district.

[jesemd]

Not sure if this was mentioned as I don’t have time to read over 100 pages, but Tom Gresham on Gun Talk has a great idea to increase turnout.

Everyone who attends would get a ticket for a raffle on a gun or package. If we could get a local shop to donate a firearm, even a used one, that might encourage people to show up.

Or maybe everyone who can’t attend pitches in a few bucks to purchase a gift card? A DIY kit from PSA is only $4-500 right now.

If we can get an AR donated, I will throw in a couple mags for the winner. Or I will toss $20 toward a gift card.

Just a thought...

[alpacaheat]

I'd prefer people actually do it because they're interested in defending our rights, not to win a prize.

That might be OK for the big April/May rally but not for regular advocacy.

Would we trust a random contest entrant to speak on behalf of us well, to reps or the media?

Imagine the news station pulls aside a random person at a rally and asks why they're there. He says, "I'm just here because I wanted to win that assault rifle!" That would be a gift to the antis and they'd run with that forever.



We want to stock the Capitol with people who can, even if memorizing some points, can represent us well.

[jesemd]

I’m not saying to take an advertisement on Facebook for a raffle. But if a PAFOA member is on the fence about taking off work or making the drive, that may tip the scales toward going.

[Berncly]

Agree 100%.

There is a huge difference between getting people to show up for a rally versus lobbying. Hell, for many in this thread, attending the hearings was the first time they were even inside the building.

Volunteer lobbyists get bored after a few visits and quit. Those that do stay, often say stupid shit.

So, training and motivation are key to a successful program.

Most important, to actually talk with a lawmaker you need to either be a constituent or an official representative of an organization that has members in his district. If you are neither, why would they waste their time? I'm not sure that 'Friends of' meets that criteria. As an official subset of FOAC with business cards (even those printed on a decent home computer) we've got a fighting chance. A conversation starts with "My name is so-and-so with FOAC. We have about 400 members in your district.". This is key. If you can't tell them how many people you have in their district, you will be ushered out rather quickly.

BTW: if routinely lobbying and not under another organization's credentials, we need to register as a lobbyist group or risk fines. https://www.palobbyingservices.pa.gov/

As previously mentioned, the 2A Capitol project is being done with FOAC.
This means our people will be adding energy to the FOAC initiative, and will be representing FOAC in that capacity.
The discussions with FOAC include required direction and talking points, this is the reason why we have not been able to just jump in on the fly.

The Friends of PAFOA discussion is a separate issue, entirely unrelated to the 2A Capitol project.
The PAFOA discussion is connected to our outreach project which is a PAFOA initiative, not FOAC or GOA.

We need a name so that when we meet people we don't say "Hi, I'm from nowhere and represent no one, let's talk...".
In that capacity specifically, we need a name to introduce ourselves and ask for 2A communication cooperation from shops, ranges, gun shows, rallies, and Kpop dancers.
If the word comes back that we can hand out PAFOA cards and flyers we will do that, otherwise we may need to be "Friends of PAFOA".

Please do me a personal favor, and try to keep things positive here.
Your input is valuable as is your 2A activism, and it would be immensely helpful if you presented your same factual input without the doom and gloom.
It's fine for me and the other regulars, but it can easily discourage uninvolved people who are thinking about lending us a hand and standing for the 2A in PA.

[Berncly]

I’m not saying to take an advertisement on Facebook for a raffle. But if a PAFOA member is on the fence about taking off work or making the drive, that may tip the scales toward going.

I'm not against an incentive raffle if it is done correctly and doesn't eclipse the motivation of the 2A volunteers.
FOAC already does a regular 2A donation raffle, and it could be as simple as giving our 2A volunteers FOAC raffle tickets proportional to their effort.
FOAC raffle winners get guns

We are also working on basic expenses compensation to offset gas, food, and other incidentals, so that volunteers strapped for cash will not be overly burdened.
This is dependent on availability of funds and other details, so it is not guaranteed at this point.