****PAFOA Representation**** Harrisburg Capitol Building, 9/24 and 9/25

[Justin///M]

We do have to be careful about anything being "officially PAFOA" because we are not the site owners and PAFOA isn't currently set up to be "official" from a taxing standpoint. We can't "officially" be a PAC such as FOAC.

It's way off topic for this thread but there are some options being explored;

1) I've reached out about buying PAFOA to take it to that next level because we DO have the name recognition and we are becoming a force of our own. However, I haven't heard back and don't know that I will. I don't have any idea what the price would be. Before some of you react in horror with the thoughts of me "owning" PAFOA, I can assure you that the daily running of the forum wouldn't change and all of the staff and rules would remain in place (assuming they want to stay). I'm not interested in "moderating" the forum..., what I'm interested in is owning the rights to make PAFOA a PAC, or other such entity, so that we CAN act in an official capacity. Again, the forum would remain pretty much untouched (except maybe exploring a more modern software).
2) PA2A.org is available for sale. The forum is pretty much defunct but we could rebrand it for what we want.
3) Create something new.

We were generously granted permission to use a modified PAFOA logo for hats, and other such items to show where we're from, but we can't be "official representatives" of PAFOA. None of us have the authority to speak for PAFOA in an official manner with the way things currently stand.

It's challenging because again, we have the recognition now and I'd hate to have to start over with a new identity, but that may be what it comes to.

[alpacaheat]

Of course, that's why I mentioned getting permission. I would not want members going rogue and creating all kinds of things in my images either...so I get that beyond the legal ramifications. Perhaps the site owners could make some cards and sell like CafePress products for us to use...on their terms.

A way to invite people to the forum and drive people here in mass would be great.

Your point #2 could be something big. We could form that into our activism group/page/organization. I'm sure we could pool funds to make happen.

[Justin///M]

Of course, that's why I mentioned getting permission. I would not want members going rogue and creating all kinds of things in my images either...so I get that beyond the legal ramifications. Perhaps the site owners could make some cards and sell like CafePress products for us to use...on their terms.

A way to invite people to the forum and drive people here in mass would be great.

Your point #2 could be something big. We could form that into our activism group/page/organization. I'm sure we could pool funds to make happen.

Yeah I just wanted it known that we are working on making PAFOA more official if possible.

[Berncly]

We have permission to organize within the space and to print Poofa addresses on our shirts/cards/flyers.
I really think "Friends of PAFOA" or something similar is the easiest way to go.

[PA_Robert]

We have permission to organize within the space and to print Poofa addresses on our shirts/cards/flyers.
I really think "Friends of PAFOA" or something similar is the easiest way to go.

Would the postcard (or whatever) identify the groups like GOA and FOAC?

[Berncly]

Would the postcard (or whatever) identify the groups like GOA and FOAC?

It's problematic.
We are dealing with differing groups as it relates to tax exemption and political designation.
We are also not official representatives of any of the groups involved.

We are independent 2A political activists that are allowed to organize within this space as intended.
As independent activists we are free to immediately point people towards any and all groups once they enter our threads within this organizational space.
That is entirely different than handing out cards as pseudo representatives of groups we do not own or represent.

Justin is correct that purchasing Poofa and redesignating it as a PAC would be a game changer.
But short of that we are required to function within our mandate.

This can make things difficult as has been pointed out, but it is also beneficial.
As independent 2A activists we are free to do and say almost anything without causing potential harm to the groups we organize with.

In the short term, I think going with "Friends of PAFOA" along with the logo or altered logo is probably the best option for physical media.
In the long term, I think Justin has the right idea and it will just depend on what is possible and doable.

[PA_Robert]

Understood.

Maybe I'll contact Val of GOA and Kim of FOAC and see about getting individual cards or stickers from them and permission to hand them out. A majority of people I run into who are pro 2A and/or gun owners are not aware of GOA and FOAC, or know very little about them.

Our battle is fought with two forces. First is getting people involved, which PAFOA can do and the second is the force in court and the civic arena. FOAC, GOA and Josh Prince will lead that...and they need supporters. I can't donate huge sums of money to them but I can help get their name out there.

[Jhaydeno]

We have permission to organize within the space and to print Poofa addresses on our shirts/cards/flyers.
I really think "Friends of PAFOA" or something similar is the easiest way to go.

I've got to agree with Bern: the "friends of PAFOA" is a quick, easy way to avoid costs and liabilities while still operating within a recognizable brand.

[Berncly]

Understood.

Maybe I'll contact Val of GOA and Kim of FOAC and see about getting individual cards or stickers from them and permission to hand them out. A majority of people I run into who are pro 2A and/or gun owners are not aware of GOA and FOAC, or know very little about them.

Our battle is fought with two forces. First is getting people involved, which PAFOA can do and the second is the force in court and the civic arena. FOAC, GOA and Josh Prince will lead that...and they need supporters. I can't donate huge sums of money to them but I can help get their name out there.

Certainly a good idea to spread the word and get people to become members in whatever way those 2A organizations request.
We also will have links to all 2A organizations involved with suggestions for membership in all of our funneled gateway threads.

[longcall911]

I suggest avoiding any name at all, other than hats and shirts that have already been made, until we get some direction about the future of PAFOA versus PA2A.org, versus some totally different organization.

Starting a brand now such as 'friends of' and changing it in a few months to possibly a whole new organization name creates confusion. Of course companies/organizations change names all the time so it is not a huge deal, but I don't see the urgency in us operating under a different name right now.

I believe we are better off spending that time developing a stated vision of what we want to be and a plan for getting there. The greatest obstacle I see is that there are so many different views of what we should be/do that it will likely be difficult deciding on specifics. If we had an organization tomorrow, who would be President, VP, board of directors? Who will submit formation docs? How about a bank account? We need insurance. How do we raise money? Do we have an official membership policy? Are we then competing with FOAC & GOA? Do we have any idea what it takes to build an organization from scratch and maintain it? I do, and will say that building requires a minimum of 40-50 man-hours a week for 6-12 months. Maintenance is half that. If we don't have people willing to commit to that kind of time each and every week, we will fail. I've seen it many times over.

My question would be "can we work for/with Kim Stolfer instead?" I know that there have been major disagreements with some of his positions in the past, namely P-burgh. But, I believe Kim is a reasonable person when confronted directly. He can be stubborn, but I think that description fits most of us on this board. It seems to me that if we can be a sort of sub-unit to FOAC we'd have the best of all worlds for us, FOAC and the 2A community.

If that were possible, we could be the activist brigade, so to speak. Many other organizations have a similar structure. We can then help build FOAC (lord knows Kim deserves some relief/rest) but in turn we need some seats on the FOAC board. Maybe those seats are commensurate with the size of the activist arm that we build.

Kim has stated many times over that he will work with anyone. Also, FOAC needs a greater presence/strength in SE PA. This is where the concentration of weak-kneed RINOs are. Building membership and recruiting new members into an activist-army could be a very effective plan and it doesn't require building an organization from scratch. I'd be very willing to participate in such talks with Kim (I know him rather well, plus I think LBaker is already in FOAC leadership) and would be very willing to participate in getting this off the ground.