****PAFOA Representation**** Harrisburg Capitol Building, 9/24 and 9/25

[Berncly]

I suggest avoiding any name at all, other than hats and shirts that have already been made, until we get some direction about the future of PAFOA versus PA2A.org, versus some totally different organization.

Starting a brand now such as 'friends of' and changing it in a few months to possibly a whole new organization name creates confusion. Of course companies/organizations change names all the time so it is not a huge deal, but I don't see the urgency in us operating under a different name right now.

I believe we are better off spending that time developing a stated vision of what we want to be and a plan for getting there. The greatest obstacle I see is that there are so many different views of what we should be/do that it will likely be difficult deciding on specifics. If we had an organization tomorrow, who would be President, VP, board of directors? Who will submit formation docs? How about a bank account? We need insurance. How do we raise money? Do we have an official membership policy? Are we then competing with FOAC & GOA? Do we have any idea what it takes to build an organization from scratch and maintain it? I do, and will say that building requires a minimum of 40-50 man-hours a week for 6-12 months. Maintenance is half that. If we don't have people willing to commit to that kind of time each and every week, we will fail. I've seen it many times over.

My question would be "can we work for/with Kim Stolfer instead?" I know that there have been major disagreements with some of his positions in the past, namely P-burgh. But, I believe Kim is a reasonable person when confronted directly. He can be stubborn, but I think that description fits most of us on this board. It seems to me that if we can be a sort of sub-unit to FOAC we'd have the best of all worlds for us, FOAC and the 2A community.

If that were possible, we could be the activist brigade, so to speak. Many other organizations have a similar structure. We can then help build FOAC (lord knows Kim deserves some relief/rest) but in turn we need some seats on the FOAC board. Maybe those seats are commensurate with the size of the activist arm that we build.

Kim has stated many times over that he will work with anyone. Also, FOAC needs a greater presence/strength in SE PA. This is where the concentration of weak-kneed RINOs are. Building membership and recruiting new members into an activist-army could be a very effective plan and it doesn't require building an organization from scratch. I'd be very willing to participate in such talks with Kim (I know him rather well, plus I think LBaker is already in FOAC leadership) and would be very willing to participate in getting this off the ground.

We are already working with FOAC and GOA and others.
I don't want to compete with any of the existing 2A groups large or small.

I want to facilitate communication and political cooperation between every 2A group in PA.
This discussion about a name is because we need to identify as something when we connect with everyone.

The big tent concept is not about control, it's about communication and cooperation.
It's about 2A group xyz making something happen, and us making sure every other 2A group knows about it so they can jump in and lend a hand.

I don't want to repeat the same tired formula we are all familiar with.
I want to do something that as far as I can tell has never been done in PA.

We are in a position here to fill a communication gap to help protect the 2A in PA.
It's a specific function we can do well without making it unnecessarily complicated.

The idea of putting our 2A people in the Capitol is really just an extension of the existing FOAC initiative.
Our participation gives it new energy allowing it to go next level and fight the current threat to the 2A in PA.

Our implementation of the 2A Capitol project is just our people lending a hand to FOAC.
Much the same as we and others can lend a hand to any 2A group making something happen for the 2A in PA.
-

[longcall911]

We are already working with FOAC and GOA and others.
I don't want to compete with any of the existing 2A groups large or small.

I want to facilitate communication and political cooperation between every 2A group in PA.
This discussion about a name is because we need to identify as something when we connect with everyone.

The big tent concept is not about control, it's about communication and cooperation.
It's about 2A group xyz making something happen, and us making sure every other 2A group knows about it so they can jump in and lend a hand.

I don't want to repeat the same tired formula we are all familiar with.
I want to do something that as far as I can tell has never been done in PA.

We are in a position here to fill a communication gap to help protect the 2A in PA.
It's a specific function we can do well without making it unnecessarily complicated.

The idea of putting our 2A people in the Capitol is really just an extension of the existing FOAC initiative.
Our participation gives it new energy allowing it to go next level and fight the current threat to the 2A in PA.

Our implementation of the 2A Capitol project is just our people lending a hand to FOAC.
Much the same as we and others can lend a hand to any 2A group making something happen for the 2A in PA.
-

I'm a bit confused. What you describe is us being a communications service to promote events, that also has some people in it who will support/attend these events, that has a name but no real structure except that it would likely be a PAC. Why would a communications organization need/want to be a PAC?

The question above is rhetorical. I'll be patient and wait for this whole thing to develop further.

[Berncly]

I'm a bit confused. What you describe is us being a communications service to promote events, that also has some people in it who will support/attend these events, that has a name but no real structure except that it would likely be a PAC. Why would a communications organization need/want to be a PAC?

The question above is rhetorical. I'll be patient and wait for this whole thing to develop further.

We don't need to become a PAC to do any of the stuff we are talking about.
The PAC discussion is related but unnecessary.

Were I to theoretically acquire PAFOA I would make it an LLC instead of a PAC for maximum flexibility.
Neither is necessary, and a "Friends" designation is enough for us to do our thing recognizably and efficiently.

[PA_Robert]

I suggest avoiding any name at all, other than hats and shirts that have already been made, until we get some direction about the future of PAFOA versus PA2A.org, versus some totally different organization.

Starting a brand now such as 'friends of' and changing it in a few months to possibly a whole new organization name creates confusion. Of course companies/organizations change names all the time so it is not a huge deal, but I don't see the urgency in us operating under a different name right now.

I believe we are better off spending that time developing a stated vision of what we want to be and a plan for getting there. The greatest obstacle I see is that there are so many different views of what we should be/do that it will likely be difficult deciding on specifics. If we had an organization tomorrow, who would be President, VP, board of directors? Who will submit formation docs? How about a bank account? We need insurance. How do we raise money? Do we have an official membership policy? Are we then competing with FOAC & GOA? Do we have any idea what it takes to build an organization from scratch and maintain it? I do, and will say that building requires a minimum of 40-50 man-hours a week for 6-12 months. Maintenance is half that. If we don't have people willing to commit to that kind of time each and every week, we will fail. I've seen it many times over.

My question would be "can we work for/with Kim Stolfer instead?" I know that there have been major disagreements with some of his positions in the past, namely P-burgh. But, I believe Kim is a reasonable person when confronted directly. He can be stubborn, but I think that description fits most of us on this board. It seems to me that if we can be a sort of sub-unit to FOAC we'd have the best of all worlds for us, FOAC and the 2A community.

If that were possible, we could be the activist brigade, so to speak. Many other organizations have a similar structure. We can then help build FOAC (lord knows Kim deserves some relief/rest) but in turn we need some seats on the FOAC board. Maybe those seats are commensurate with the size of the activist arm that we build.

Kim has stated many times over that he will work with anyone. Also, FOAC needs a greater presence/strength in SE PA. This is where the concentration of weak-kneed RINOs are. Building membership and recruiting new members into an activist-army could be a very effective plan and it doesn't require building an organization from scratch. I'd be very willing to participate in such talks with Kim (I know him rather well, plus I think LBaker is already in FOAC leadership) and would be very willing to participate in getting this off the ground.

I agree. First there is "friends of PAFOA" then others will decide they want to start something a little different and then we have "Friend's Cousin of PAFOA" then we have "Sister's Brother's cousin Friends of POOFA".

Let POOFA remain an on line forum for information and coordinating events in specific thread/forums...and let it continue to offer all the other good stuff and threads/forums.

Let's throw our financial and time support to an existing org..like FOAC.

I also have seen and experienced the "let's start another org" with Libertarians and III%'ers. It divides our forces.

YMMV

[streaker69]

How about the Popular People's Front of Judea?

[fallenleader]

Wth is pa2a?

We need an online calendar, members start filling in days they can attend thw capitol. Alonw or with friends.
Start there with volunteer attendance. If you see a bpank and can fill it, do your damndest.

Ianal im drunk and typos cuz phone and drunk. Well not drunk but 5 shots of bourbon in.

[ar15_shooter]

There is definitely a lot of value in having a way to quickly disseminate information in a meaningful grassroots way. Growing membership in orgs like FOAC and GOA is certainly one part of the puzzle, but we can do more. Email blasts out to membership are great, but a forum like this where we coordinate and each spread information through our own network/contacts is vital as well. It's one of the things that can give us a huge advantage over the astroturf anti-gun groups. We have a large well of people who may not be members of an organization or on a mailing list, but have a personal stake in protecting the 2A.

[ar15_shooter]

We are already working with FOAC and GOA and others.
I don't want to compete with any of the existing 2A groups large or small.

I want to facilitate communication and political cooperation between every 2A group in PA.
This discussion about a name is because we need to identify as something when we connect with everyone.

The big tent concept is not about control, it's about communication and cooperation.
It's about 2A group xyz making something happen, and us making sure every other 2A group knows about it so they can jump in and lend a hand.

I don't want to repeat the same tired formula we are all familiar with.
I want to do something that as far as I can tell has never been done in PA.

We are in a position here to fill a communication gap to help protect the 2A in PA.
It's a specific function we can do well without making it unnecessarily complicated.

The idea of putting our 2A people in the Capitol is really just an extension of the existing FOAC initiative.
Our participation gives it new energy allowing it to go next level and fight the current threat to the 2A in PA.

Our implementation of the 2A Capitol project is just our people lending a hand to FOAC.
Much the same as we and others can lend a hand to any 2A group making something happen for the 2A in PA.
-

I think the best/most valuable thing we can do right now as defenders of the 2A in Pennsylvania is to work for/with FOAC (whether it be officially or unofficially). I am not opposed to calling it something like "friends of pafoa" but I think that should primarily be to direct people here for organizational purposes. I don't know that it has to be anything more than a name (ianal) for members of this forum working to organize in support of FOAC's initiatives.
It could be a good gateway for getting more people involved as well. People who are not currently involved in activism may be much more likely to read/join a forum than jump right in and join a group like FOAC.

[Berncly]

I agree. First there is "friends of PAFOA" then others will decide they want to start something a little different and then we have "Friend's Cousin of PAFOA" then we have "Sister's Brother's cousin Friends of POOFA".

Let POOFA remain an on line forum for information and coordinating events in specific thread/forums...and let it continue to offer all the other good stuff and threads/forums.

Let's throw our financial and time support to an existing org..like FOAC.

I also have seen and experienced the "let's start another org" with Libertarians and III%'ers. It divides our forces.

YMMV

The original plan was to go with Bob's Second Cousin's Neighbor's Pennsylvania Pet Chihuahua, or the BSCNPAPC, but it was already taken.
We don't want to start another 2A organization, we want to work within the existing framework, we are just figuring out the details but there are rules, like in the thunderdome.

[Berncly]

How about the Popular People's Front of Judea?

You're not helping...