Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: So who else is a libertarian?

    Quote Originally Posted by icp4life162005 View Post
    Maybe if more people got on board instead of picking 'democrat litex things could change. So sick of the 'any other vote is ruining my candidate' bullshit too. There are all cut from the same damn cloth.
    I understand your frustration but there is no reason to be inflammatory.
    The difference between us is not philosophical, it is practical.

    It is an absolute certainty that we cannot influence enough people to make any current Conservative third party candidate electable.
    If one materializes that garners true electable popular support I will be happy to vote for them.

    As a purely practical matter I must place my vote where it does the most good for the 2A.
    I will not add to the damage to my country by refusing to vote, or by giving my vote to an unelectable third party that mathematically ensures Liberal Democrat victory.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Newport, Pennsylvania
    (Perry County)
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    Default Re: So who else is a libertarian?

    Quote Originally Posted by JAKIII View Post
    Not picking on UJ, but this was a ‘non-vote’. Perhaps a ‘feel good vote’, but a waste nevertheless. Any of you considering this on November 3, 2020 should just stay home.
    I will disagree with your assessment of that vote. There was a feeling that Ross Perot could win. He pulled 19% of the vote which was significant for a third party candidate. Ultimately, it cost Bush the White House which is why I pointed out the negative effect of casting a vote for him. But I don't see where someone refusing to vote Trump hurts Trump if they vote 3rd party. He wasn't getting that vote anyway. Obviously, any Trump hater that votes for the Dem nominee does hurt Trump. Trump is going to have be careful that he doesn't alienate us. He doesn't automatically get my vote. He worries me, as he did when he won the nomination that he's very squishy on the 2A regardless of his proclamations.
    "A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself"

    "He created the game, played the game, and lost the game.... All under his own terms, by his own doing." JW34

    "Tolerance is the lube that helps slip the dildo of dysfunction into the ass of a civilized society." Plato

  3. #63
    Join Date
    May 2014
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    Default Re: So who else is a libertarian?

    I tow a thin line with this post, but I believe it is permissible.

    I remain independent in regards to all political issues (except on gun rights) and I frequently side with the libertarians and sometimes the republicans. I have been voting for years now and have yet to vote for one single democrat since that party declared 'war' on gun ownership and the right to keep and bear arms.

    One thing to remember is that there are very few politicians- libertarian, green, republican, democrat, independent, or otherwise that truly support the founding ideals of this nation anymore- or your rights.

    What you see from the republicans now calling for more gun control is a knee jerk reaction that, I believe- some will reply 'oh s^@t, I should not have done that' and some who are now firmly anti-gun or were anti-gun to begin with. It is OUR JOB to remind them that they'd better stick to promises and NOT violate our rights. Some listen seriously. Many do not. If the republican critter will not listen, complain to the party head and make your case for accountability. They want your vote. They won't bend over backwards for it, but they will flex their spine if enough people make it an issue.

    Our rights are for politicians to toy with and our votes and rallying cries to be used when they find it politically advantageous. Nothing more. As someone capable of critical thinking, I HATE being toyed with in this manner. But this is the reality of things. Absolute power and immunity can corrupt.

    You're not alone in your stated opinion- lots of people are finally seeing that republicans are not going to protect them, and neither will the democrats. Time and time again for decades both major political parties have thrown all of us under the bus as gun owners- Bush did it and Reagan did it. Now Trump is threatening to do it. Our rights are not up for discussion or for 'wheeling and dealing'. Anyone who is willing to wheel and deal on fundamental rights is inherently dangerous. Believe me- Trump is not my sweetheart. No politician is.

    There are many hard-core conservative and republican members on this board with a small group of liberal leaning gun owners (who are pro-gun) and many independents and libertarians. Unfortunately if you can't help republican or conservative ideals- you will not gain much approval here from the majority.

    But that is the really great thing about what is left of this country- it is supposed to be an open forum of ideas and information. It just so happens that most of us here agree that gun control is bunk, it does not work and that despite our political differences we are all in this boat together. We agreed on getting on the boat when we became gun owners, and bailers of water and patchers of holes when we decided to uphold and appreciate liberty, an inherently dangerous concept.

    Remain vigilant on alerts, donate to worthy campaigns (GOA, 2AF, FOAC, PAFOA) (I can't recommend the NRA at this time) and become a 1 issue voter. I look at it this way. If no one is going to be held accountable anymore, or hold people accountable anymore, it's a great start that I start doing it. Believe me- I let politicians know that if they do X on gun rights that I will vote them out. If more gun owners did this, we would have less of a burden to carry.
    Last edited by Didnotcomply89; August 19th, 2019 at 01:24 PM.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Glenmoore, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: So who else is a libertarian?

    Quote Originally Posted by unclejumbo View Post
    I will disagree with your assessment of that vote. There was a feeling that Ross Perot could win. He pulled 19% of the vote which was significant for a third party candidate.

    ~snip~
    Very fair point! Perot was certainly blazing an unknown trail/setting precedent. My comments were not directed at you; just presented a segue for me.

    This topic will generate passion here the closer we get to 11/3/20.

  5. #65
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    May 2008
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    Leb-A-non, Pennsylvania
    (Lebanon County)
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    Default Re: So who else is a libertarian?

    Quote Originally Posted by JAKIII View Post
    Well, Bern... there are some in the forum and this thread who didn’t learn.



    If Trump loses on 11/3/20 it will be a result of those making a ‘statement’ with their third party vote.
    If Trump loses in 2020 it will be because he didn't do what he was supposed to do.
    If you don't know who your state legislators are go here:
    http://www.legis.state.pa.us/index.cfm
    put your zip plus 4 in the box in the upper right hand corner.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Glen Mills, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: So who else is a libertarian?

    Quote Originally Posted by truecrimson View Post
    If Trump loses in 2020 it will be because he didn't do what he was supposed to do.
    If Trump loses, we all lose big time when looking at the overall picture imo.
    Proof Armed citizens make a difference. http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=316012

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