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  1. #41
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    Default Re: NRA

    Who do antis blame for gun control stalling? The NRA is imperfect. There are a lot of other groups out there working for gun rights that people can put money towards if they don’t like the NRA. But the NRA does have a powerful role to play. Destroying them does not benefit gun owners imo.


    https://www.politicususa.com/2019/08...nd-checks.html

    The NRA Has Thrown $1.6 Million At Mitch McConnell To Block Expanded Background Checks
    Sean ColarossiMon, Aug 5th, 2019
    If you’re wondering why Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is refusing to advance a bipartisan bill to expand background checks on gun purchases, just follow the money.

    As CNBC reported on Monday, “The National Rifle Association spent $1.6 million during the first half of the year lobbying members of the House and Senate against laws that would enact stricter background checks for people looking to buy guns, according to disclosure reports.”

    One piece of legislation has passed the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives, but McConnell has stayed loyal to his NRA masters and refused to allow a vote on the bill in the Senate.

    According to Giffords, a gun safety advocacy group named after former Rep. Gabby Giffords, the bill being blocked by the McConnell Senate “would require a background check on every gun sale or transfer, with carefully defined exceptions for gifts to family members, hunting, target shooting, and self-defense.”

    It would also “require unlicensed gun sellers to utilize this same system by requiring them to sell or transfer firearms only through licensed dealers.”

    This is common sense, and there is no question that passing this bipartisan legislation is the least we should be doing to reduce gun violence in the United States.

    But $1.6 million from the NRA can buy a lot in Washington, and the Republican majority leader in the Senate appears to be one of those things up for sale.

    Mitch McConnell is the literal grim reaper

    Mitch McConnell has frequently bragged about being the “grim reaper” in the Senate by killing legislation passed by Democrats in the House of Representatives.

    But in this particular case, McConnell is a literal grim reaper. His refusal to act means the violence we saw in El Paso and Dayton will inevitably rear its ugly head in another American community, and more people will die.

    Every time he puts NRA bribes over American lives and refuses to act, he has an increasing amount of blood on his hands.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Absolutely true. I can tell you from many years of moderating this and other sites, in election years you WILL have false flag ops show up on mostly right-wing boards, and the operatives are pretty easy to spot. They generally do nothing but badmouth our assets, without providing some viable alternative. They'll demand the death of the NRA but fail to provide some powerful alternative other than "we just need to quote the 2nd Amendment and magic will happen". Or "we should kill the NRA and start up several new groups that do exactly what we want".

    They came here in 2016 and ridiculed Trump but didn't offer any alternative candidate who would get enough votes to win dog catcher in Allentown.

    They know they won't get gun owners to join Ceasefire, so they settle for discouraging NRA membership. They know we won't vote for Hillary or Warren or Bernie, but they'd like us to throw our vote away as a "symbolic gesture" to "send a message" while the Dems are all voting for the Democrat.

    We're smarter than they think we are, we're smarter than they are. Just look for the members who either just signed up, or have been here a few years but don't contribute anything of value. Not to say that there aren't some legit members who are just delusional, but the DNC trolls are more active and easier to spot.

    If the whining backseat drivers had their way in 2016 and we all voted for some Libertarian or a dead guy (basically the same thing), then Hillary would have won. Hillary would have appointed 3 or more Supreme Court Justices, and that 5-4 Heller majority would flip, and the highest court in the land would hold 7-2 that they were wrong, the 2nd Amendment is just there so Congress can arm the National Guard. So you purists could quote the 2nd Amendment all you want, and it would get you British-style gun laws. But you wouldn't have voted for some "compromise", so you'd be "pure", like a jar of 100% piss is pure.
    You called me delusional, watch your mouth.
    Go sell crazy some where else, we're all stocked up here.


    Political power grows from the muzzle of a gun.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: NRA

    Red flag laws are here. We have them in several states. The NRA was (maybe still is, I don't know what the fuck they're up to now) working to ensure red flag laws included strong due process, limited those that could report, and quick resolution of any cases where they were used.

    To those unable to grasp the nuance of politics, those unable to grasp that the NRA doesn't have veto power, those unable to grasp that mitigation of a law is huge, the NRA sold them out. If you don't understand the fight you're fighting, go hide in a closet with your guns. Because the bottom line is this: There are a shit-ton of chest thumpers demanding no compromise, waiting for the next civil war so the tree of liberty can be watered but they're all talk. If you haven't gone out and killed a tyrant you're just a full-of-shit blowhard that's too stupid to understand what a real civil war would mean. You're too stupid to understand that a peaceful resolution is the best option. That a properly configured SCOTUS will strike down any inane law the grabbers come up with.

    I've dealt with so many "tough" guys that I've just had my fill. Talkers talk and doers do. If you're still talking, accept who you really are. You aren't a merchant of death, you're a rabble-rouser whose most dangerous weapon is a keyboard or microphone.
    Last edited by unclejumbo; August 6th, 2019 at 02:13 PM.
    "A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself"

    "He created the game, played the game, and lost the game.... All under his own terms, by his own doing." JW34

    "Tolerance is the lube that helps slip the dildo of dysfunction into the ass of a civilized society." Plato

  4. #44
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    Default Re: NRA

    Quote Originally Posted by unclejumbo View Post
    Red flag laws are here. We have them in several states. The NRA was (maybe still is, I don't know what the fuck they're up to now) working to ensure red flag laws included strong due process, limited those that could report, and quick resolution of any cases where they were used.

    To those unable to grasp the nuance of politics, those unable to grasp that the NRA doesn't have veto power, those unable to grasp that mitigation of a law is huge, the NRA sold them out. If you don't understand the fight you're fighting, go hide in a closet with your guns. Because the bottom line is this: There are a shit-ton of chest thumpers demanding no compromise, waiting for the next civil war so the tree of liberty can be watered but they're all talk. If you haven't gone out and killed a tyrant than you're just a full-of-shit blowhard that's too stupid to understand what a real civil war would mean. You're too stupid to understand that a peaceful resolution is the best option. That a properly configured SCOTUS will strike down any inane law the grabbers come up with.

    I've dealt with so many "tough" guys that I've just had my fill. Talkers talk and doers do. If you're still talking, accept who you really are. You aren't a merchant of death, you're a rabble-rouser whose most dangerous weapon is a keyboard or microphone.

    Antis are realizing this and are concerned about the courts. We need to keep this ball rolling. Trump, a conservative Senate and the NRA helping keep the courts conservative are needed.


    https://abovethelaw.com/2019/08/the-...ever-possible/

    The GOP Has A Plan On Gun Control: Appoint Conservative Judges So No Gun Control Is Ever Possible
    Gorsuch and Kavanaugh are just the tip of spear in the Republican attempt to protect gun violence for a generation.

    By Elie Mystal

    (Image via Getty)

    When you cut away all the pseudo-intellectual originalism crap, there are essentially two theories of Constitutional interpretation when it comes to gun violence in America.

    Theory A: We are a brutish, violent people, and the Second Amendment, as written, provides no relief from our evil nature. The Constitution is soaked in the blood of our children and, absent amendment, it textually demands that more blood be sacrificed in the name of our murderous culture. No right to life or happiness can overcome the rights of the gun or the bullet as codified in our most sacred laws.

    Theory B: EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED NATION IN THE WORLD HAS FIGURED OUT A BETTER WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS! There’s nothing in the Constitution, including the Second Amendment, that requires us to be actively dumber than the rest of the modern world. FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST, WE CAN DO SOMETHING.

    The people who subscribe to Theory B are gaining momentum. After every mass shooting, the number of people who believe that our current Constitutional structure allows for some action on gun control and regulation grows. Universal background checks is an overwhelmingly popular position. Polls show that 85 percent of Americans support “red flag laws,” which allow family members to petition that a gun should be taken away from a person who appears to be a danger to themselves and others. The Second Amendment’s right to bear arms is not absolute, and we all know it’s not absolute (go try to buy a decommissioned M1 Abrams tank if you don’t believe me). Clearly, there are many regulations we can enact that would start the process of declawing our violent society, and those regulations would not interfere with your Constitutional right to own a weapon that took approximately 10 to 15 seconds to reload after every shot.

    Unfortunately, the people who subscribe to Theory B are underrepresented on our nation’s courts. This has been the work of the Federalist Society generally, and Mitch McConnell specifically. They have worked to stack the courts with hardcore originalists who subscribe to Theory A.

    So much of what McConnell and the FedSoc have done has been to address the fact that their positions are wildly unpopular and manifestly against the small “d” democratic arc of history. They are losing the intellectual battle on guns, just as they’ve lost the intellectual battle on women’s rights, civil rights, gay and lesbian rights, and voting rights. They know that as the Baby Boomer generation finally and mercifully dies off, many of their white male supremacist theories will die with them, and be rejected at the ballot box. And so their plan has been to infuse the courts, the one anti-democratic branch of government, with people who will prevent the progress of society long after people like Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump are gone.

    On Slate, Mark Joseph Stern explains how dire the situation is:

    The GOP may have no plan to stop mass shootings, but it does have a plan to ensure that Democrats can’t stop them, either.

    To understand the dynamic here, it’s important to remember that the Supreme Court’s Second Amendment decisions have been fairly narrow. In 2008’s District of Columbia v. Heller, the court ruled that the amendment protects law-abiding individuals’ right to keep handguns in the home for self-defense. In 2010’s McDonald v. Chicago, the court held that this right applies against state and local governments. Thus, the Constitution prevents the government from outlawing the possession of a handgun in the home. Under current precedent, the Second Amendment poses no threat to the vast majority of proposed gun regulations.

    Try as it might, the National Rifle Association and its allies have failed to persuade the Supreme Court to go any further. The court has declined to hear challenges to a ban on assault weapons, a requirement that guns be stored in a lockbox, a prohibition on concealed carry, and a mandatory waiting period between firearm purchases. A majority of the justices have simply refused to expand Heller and McDonald to curb Americans’ ability to protect themselves from the gun massacres that plague us today.

    Trump’s judges are desperate to change that.

    We are looking at federal courts, from the Supreme Court on down, that will try to make it easier for people to access deadly weapons, at the very time that overwhelming majorities want to restrict access.

    Preventing federal action on gun control is the key to allowing these mass shootings to continue ad infinitum. It doesn’t matter if California has strict gun control laws if a white domestic terrorist can buy his arsenal in Nevada. What happens in Vegas most definitely does not stay in Vegas when it comes to gun reform.

    It is because of the relentless efforts of Republicans and conservatives when it comes to promoting conservative judges, including all the “Never Trump” conservatives who now pretend to give a s**t, that I myself have now come to subscribe to Theory A. Our Constitution, as currently interpreted by courts controlled by Republicans, is a blood-soaked invitation to continued mass murder. As long as conservatives can hide behind the Second Amendment, the killings will continue.

    The founders didn’t get slavery right, and they didn’t get women right, and they didn’t get guns right. Nobody’s perfect, least of all wealthy white people from the 1700s. How many more people have to die before we can admit they made a mistake?

    The answer, obviously, is many more — scarcely imaginable more. So many more people will be violently gunned down while Republicans act like there’s nothing we can do about it.

    Senate Republicans Are Quietly Advancing a Radical Gun Plan [Slate]

  5. #45
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    Default Re: NRA

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Absolutely true. I can tell you from many years of moderating this and other sites, in election years you WILL have false flag ops show up on mostly right-wing boards, and the operatives are pretty easy to spot. They generally do nothing but badmouth our assets, without providing some viable alternative. They'll demand the death of the NRA but fail to provide some powerful alternative other than "we just need to quote the 2nd Amendment and magic will happen". Or "we should kill the NRA and start up several new groups that do exactly what we want".

    They came here in 2016 and ridiculed Trump but didn't offer any alternative candidate who would get enough votes to win dog catcher in Allentown.

    They know they won't get gun owners to join Ceasefire, so they settle for discouraging NRA membership. They know we won't vote for Hillary or Warren or Bernie, but they'd like us to throw our vote away as a "symbolic gesture" to "send a message" while the Dems are all voting for the Democrat.

    We're smarter than they think we are, we're smarter than they are. Just look for the members who either just signed up, or have been here a few years but don't contribute anything of value. Not to say that there aren't some legit members who are just delusional, but the DNC trolls are more active and easier to spot.

    If the whining backseat drivers had their way in 2016 and we all voted for some Libertarian or a dead guy (basically the same thing), then Hillary would have won. Hillary would have appointed 3 or more Supreme Court Justices, and that 5-4 Heller majority would flip, and the highest court in the land would hold 7-2 that they were wrong, the 2nd Amendment is just there so Congress can arm the National Guard. So you purists could quote the 2nd Amendment all you want, and it would get you British-style gun laws. But you wouldn't have voted for some "compromise", so you'd be "pure", like a jar of 100% piss is pure.
    What he said (again).
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  6. #46
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    Default Re: NRA

    Quote Originally Posted by unclejumbo View Post
    Red flag laws are here. We have them in several states. The NRA was (maybe still is, I don't know what the fuck they're up to now) working to ensure red flag laws included strong due process, limited those that could report, and quick resolution of any cases where they were used.

    To those unable to grasp the nuance of politics, those unable to grasp that the NRA doesn't have veto power, those unable to grasp that mitigation of a law is huge, the NRA sold them out. If you don't understand the fight you're fighting, go hide in a closet with your guns. Because the bottom line is this: There are a shit-ton of chest thumpers demanding no compromise, waiting for the next civil war so the tree of liberty can be watered but they're all talk. If you haven't gone out and killed a tyrant you're just a full-of-shit blowhard that's too stupid to understand what a real civil war would mean. You're too stupid to understand that a peaceful resolution is the best option. That a properly configured SCOTUS will strike down any inane law the grabbers come up with.

    I've dealt with so many "tough" guys that I've just had my fill. Talkers talk and doers do. If you're still talking, accept who you really are. You aren't a merchant of death, you're a rabble-rouser whose most dangerous weapon is a keyboard or microphone.
    And what he said.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  7. #47
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    Default Re: NRA

    Am I in trouble if I say mega dittoes?
    Gunowner99 - NRA Benefactor Life Member

  8. #48
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    Default Re: NRA

    Just did a five year renewal.

    You go with the army you have, not the one you want.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: NRA

    Quote Originally Posted by unclejumbo View Post
    Red flag laws are here. We have them in several states. The NRA was (maybe still is, I don't know what the fuck they're up to now) working to ensure red flag laws included strong due process, limited those that could report, and quick resolution of any cases where they were used.
    There are assault weapons bans in several states too. There are severe and arbitrary restrictions on the right to carry in several states. The fact that certain laws have been passed by leftist state governments does not legitimize them.

    None of the existing red flag laws have provisions that would prevent the scenario I previously described. The whole point of a red flag law is to allow the government to confiscate guns from a person who they can't confiscate from under existing law -- i.e. someone who hasn't broken any laws for which they would be subject to arrest, hasn't made violent threats, and doesn't fall under any prohibited categories listed in statute. There is no way to fold meaningful and enforceable due process protections into such laws. They have to allow arbitrary action by the government, that's the whole point.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: NRA

    Quote Originally Posted by Fujisawa-sensai View Post
    There are assault weapons bans in several states too. There are severe and arbitrary restrictions on the right to carry in several states. The fact that certain laws have been passed by leftist state governments does not legitimize them.

    None of the existing red flag laws have provisions that would prevent the scenario I previously described. The whole point of a red flag law is to allow the government to confiscate guns from a person who they can't confiscate from under existing law -- i.e. someone who hasn't broken any laws for which they would be subject to arrest, hasn't made violent threats, and doesn't fall under any prohibited categories listed in statute. There is no way to fold meaningful and enforceable due process protections into such laws. They have to allow arbitrary action by the government, that's the whole point.
    Stating "you can't do that" only works if you have authority that can't be usurped or sufficient means to make those that disobey pay for their transgression. Your next option is to work diligently to ensure that the damage from the action is minimized. Our guns can be confiscated due to a PFAs, they can be confiscated due to a mental health commitment. I'm not one to stamp my feet and shout at the clouds. It is what it is. It's fights we've lost and we're going to lose on red flag laws as well. In part, we can blame ourselves. We were heard as we repeated over and over that it's a mental health issue.

    So, the NRA saying "no" means they have no voice in what will come. They know when they have they have numbers to stop legislation and they know when they'll get steamrolled. I want a reactive, pragmatic NRA that does everything they can do to protect my rights even if they can't stop the legislation. It's how they've worked for decades. Couldn't stop the AWB, they got a sunset. They stopped legislation after the most horrific shooting most could imagine. That's not nothing.

    What is and what should be are rarely the same. I accept that I'm just one in a country of more than 320 million people. I'm not going to get my way most of the time. Even when I join with 5 million like minded folks. We're still a drop in the bucket. Sadly, if the NRA had 50 million gun owners on their membership rolls, they could say "no" a lot more often and have that be the end of the discussion. But, that junk mail and those phone calls are just too much to deal with. Better to sit on the sidelines, or be a part of much less influential groups and demand something you can't have, purity.
    "A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself"

    "He created the game, played the game, and lost the game.... All under his own terms, by his own doing." JW34

    "Tolerance is the lube that helps slip the dildo of dysfunction into the ass of a civilized society." Plato

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