Gunshow background checks in other states question

[internet troll]

I am trying to get my facts straight on gunshows and background checks. I know that in Pa you need a background check if you buy a handgun but not if you are buying a rifle and are a Pa resident.

I was looking at the graphic on this website that has a list of different states gun show background checks laws from 2016. A lot of states say that you do not need a background check to buy a handgun or rifle.

My question is does this typically only apply to residents of that state or can a person from California go to a gun show in Nevada and legally buy a gun from a gunshow (assuming that the gunshow does not require background checks) or from a private seller without a background check?

Or does a states gun laws only apply to citizens of that state and a person from California would still have to go through a background check because of a federal law? Kind of like how a Pa resident can get a rifle from another Pa resident without a background check, but someone from New Jersey can not legally buy that gun in the same way.

Thanks for any feedback.

Troll


https://www.governing.com/gov-data/s...-laws-map.html
Gun Show Background Checks State Laws

Known as the "gun show loophole," most states do not require background checks for firearms purchased at gun shows from private individuals -- federal law only requires licensed dealers to conduct checks.

Under the Gun Control Act of 1968, federal law clearly defined private sellers as anyone who sold no more than four firearms per year. But the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act lifted that restriction and loosely defined private sellers as people who do not rely on gun sales as the principal way of obtaining their livelihood.

Some states have opted to go further than federal law by requiring background checks at gun shows for any gun transaction, federal license or not. The majority of these such states require background checks at the point of transfer for all firearms. Alternatively, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nebraska, New Jersey and North Carolina regulate purchases by prohibiting private dealers from selling to individuals who do not have licenses/permits, which they obtain following background checks. Some states' requirements are limited only to handgun purchases.

Even in states that do not require background checks of private vendors, the venue hosting the event may require it as a matter of policy. In other cases, private vendors may opt to have a third-party licensed dealer run a background check even though it may not be required by law.

[Emptymag]

I am trying to get my facts straight on gunshows and background checks. I know that in Pa you need a background check if you buy a handgun but not if you are buying a rifle and are a Pa resident.

As far as I'm aware, "gun show" has no bearing on anything. The same laws apply without being at a gun show.

I don't think you're going to be buying a rifle off an FFL at a gun show without a background check.

If you mean non-FFL sellers, then sure - no different than meeting up anywhere to buy/sell.

[GunLawyer001]

"Gun shows" are irrelevant to this discussion, the issue is whether a private citizen can purchase guns across state lines or not. If you buy a gun from an FFL, there will be a NICS check or equivalent point-of-contact check like PICS. An FFL can sell a long gun to a resident of another state, if the sale would be legal in both states.

You can't buy a gun directly from another private person across state lines without violating Federal law.

If you go to a gun show in another state and buy a gun from "some guy in the parking lot", you have both violated Federal law. There's no loophole, any more than there's a "murder loophole" if you kill somebody and there are no witnesses and you don't get caught.

It's already illegal:
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,
. . .
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer,licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

[internet troll]

"Gun shows" are irrelevant to this discussion, the issue is whether a private citizen can purchase guns across state lines or not. If you buy a gun from an FFL, there will be a NICS check or equivalent point-of-contact check like PICS. An FFL can sell a long gun to a resident of another state, if the sale would be legal in both states.

You can't buy a gun directly from another private person across state lines without violating Federal law.

If you go to a gun show in another state and buy a gun from "some guy in the parking lot", you have both violated Federal law. There's no loophole, any more than there's a "murder loophole" if you kill somebody and there are no witnesses and you don't get caught.

It's already illegal:
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,
. . .
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer,licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

The bolded answers what I needed to know. Thank you.

As far as I'm aware, "gun show" has no bearing on anything. The same laws apply without being at a gun show.

I don't think you're going to be buying a rifle off an FFL at a gun show without a background check.

If you mean non-FFL sellers, then sure - no different than meeting up anywhere to buy/sell.

Thank you for the input.

[buckengr]

"Gun shows" are irrelevant to this discussion, the issue is whether a private citizen can purchase guns across state lines or not. If you buy a gun from an FFL, there will be a NICS check or equivalent point-of-contact check like PICS. An FFL can sell a long gun to a resident of another state, if the sale would be legal in both states.

You can't buy a gun directly from another private person across state lines without violating Federal law.

If you go to a gun show in another state and buy a gun from "some guy in the parking lot", you have both violated Federal law. There's no loophole, any more than there's a "murder loophole" if you kill somebody and there are no witnesses and you don't get caught.

It's already illegal:
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,
. . .
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer,licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

This got me thinking about a couple follow-up questions:

In section (3) of the text you quoted it says: for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,

Would this mean that if a firearm remains in the state where it is purchased (i.e. not the purchasers home state) it would be legal to purchase/possess in the state where it was obtained (at least according to Federal law, assuming a private party transfer as described previously)?

Also, if a corporation (not an FFL) has a business location registered in state A and wants to obtain a firearm for use in state A, is it legal/possible for a representative of the corporation (i.e. owner, manager, or something) who is a resident of state B to purchase and obtain a firearm in state A on behalf of the corporation? Or can only a "real person" who lives in the same state as the corporation's registration/place of business purchase/obtain firearms for the corporation?

[GunLawyer001]

This got me thinking about a couple follow-up questions:

In section (3) of the text you quoted it says: for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,

Would this mean that if a firearm remains in the state where it is purchased (i.e. not the purchasers home state) it would be legal to purchase/possess in the state where it was obtained (at least according to Federal law, assuming a private party transfer as described previously)?

Also, if a corporation (not an FFL) has a business location registered in state A and wants to obtain a firearm for use in state A, is it legal/possible for a representative of the corporation (i.e. owner, manager, or something) who is a resident of state B to purchase and obtain a firearm in state A on behalf of the corporation? Or can only a "real person" who lives in the same state as the corporation's registration/place of business purchase/obtain firearms for the corporation?

It would be illegal for the private seller, so the transaction would be a crime from the start.

[buckengr]

It would be illegal for the private seller, so the transaction would be a crime from the start.

Ah, I overlooked the seller part and how that might prevent the sale to an individual. Thanks for your reply!

Actually I'm still curious about the corporation purchase question though. Unless I am misreading (5), it seems like it wouldn't be illegal for a private seller to sell a firearm to a corporation with a place of business in the same state based on section 5 alone. See bolded part below.

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer,licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

Practically speaking, I guess I don't know how a transfer to a corporation actually takes place. In order to effect such a transfer, I assume a "real person" has to act on behalf of the corporation (and presumably would have to pass a background check if buying from an FFL)?

Edit: Yes, there are instructions on the 4473 explaining how this is done: "When the transferee/buyer of a firearm is a corporation, company, association, partnership, or other such business entity, an officer authorized to act on behalf of the business must complete Section A of the form with his/her personal information, sign Section A, and attach a written statement, executed under penalties of perjury, stating: (A) the firearm is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of that business entity; and (B) the name and address of that business entity"

However one point still isn't quite clear: Does the corporate officer also need to reside in the same state as the corp registration? Or can they somehow act "on behalf of the corporation" and purchase a firearm for the corporation in the corporation's state (i.e. other than their state of residence)?

This is fascinating. Thanks again!

[Gunsnwater]

I am trying to get my facts straight on gunshows and background checks. I know that in Pa you need a background check if you buy a handgun PERIOD but not if you are buying a rifleFROM A PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL and are a Pa residentALSO.

I was looking at the graphic on this website that has a list of different states gun show background checks laws from 2016. A lot of states say that you do not need a background check to buy a handgun or rifle.

My question is does this typically only apply to residents of that state or can a person from California go to a gun show in Nevada and legally buy a gun from a gunshow (assuming that the gunshow does not require background checks) or from a private seller without a background check?

Or does a states gun laws only apply to citizens of that state and a person from California would still have to go through a background check because of a federal law? Kind of like how a Pa resident can get a rifle from another Pa resident without a background check, but someone from New Jersey can not legally buy that gun in the same way.

Thanks for any feedback.

Troll


https://www.governing.com/gov-data/s...-laws-map.html
Gun Show Background Checks State Laws

Known as the "gun show loophole," most states do not require background checks for firearms purchased at gun shows from private individuals -- federal law only requires licensed dealers to conduct checks.

Under the Gun Control Act of 1968, federal law clearly defined private sellers as anyone who sold no more than four firearms per year. But the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act lifted that restriction and loosely defined private sellers as people who do not rely on gun sales as the principal way of obtaining their livelihood.

Some states have opted to go further than federal law by requiring background checks at gun shows for any gun transaction, federal license or not. The majority of these such states require background checks at the point of transfer for all firearms. Alternatively, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nebraska, New Jersey and North Carolina regulate purchases by prohibiting private dealers from selling to individuals who do not have licenses/permits, which they obtain following background checks. Some states' requirements are limited only to handgun purchases.

Even in states that do not require background checks of private vendors, the venue hosting the event may require it as a matter of policy. In other cases, private vendors may opt to have a third-party licensed dealer run a background check even though it may not be required by law.

Ahhhhhhh!

NO SUCH THING AS A GUN SHOW LOOP HOLE

Not yelling just making text eye catching.

Well, Ahhhhh is yelling but its from pain. The pain of hearng gun grabber speak on pafoa

[Gunsnwater]

I wonder if cavemen made up goofy rules about rocks and sticks?

[pacodelahoya]

The right of self protection, and the right to own the means to do so is aknowledged in the US constitution.
I have no moral obligation to follow illegal laws.