Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Duty to Inform ....question based on actual expeirence

    Quote Originally Posted by marinville View Post
    These threads always turn into every poster's personal opinion or advice, instead of what is actually required.

    You do not have to inform, period. In fact, you do not even have to speak. If you choose to speak, it is not illegal to lie to an officer, nor for an officer to lie to you.
    Fair enough. You are correct I never had an officer ask me that. So lie away. You are also correct I don't know all of the statutes in Pa about not telling law enforcement the truth (didn't even do a search) but a lot of states and federally they can charge you with something. Obstruction of justice is a big catch all (YMMV).


    But statutes or not if you know the officer is about to pat you down and arrest you. Stay calm, tell him you are carrying and tell him EXACTLY where it is.

    Or are you planning on yelling Constitution Motherfucker then showing him your firearm?
    Last edited by Delkal; July 15th, 2019 at 07:15 PM.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Duty to Inform ....question based on actual expeirence

    IANAL , and playing word games with the Popo during a stop isn't my idea of fun. I want to go home with my firearm(s). So , I'll recuse meself and defer to Counselor Kline aka Gunlawyers answer.
    I don't speak English , I talk American!

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Duty to Inform ....question based on actual expeirence

    Quote Originally Posted by marinville View Post
    These threads always turn into every poster's personal opinion or advice, instead of what is actually required.

    You do not have to inform, period. In fact, you do not even have to speak. If you choose to speak, it is not illegal to lie to an officer, nor for an officer to lie to you.
    All true.

    It’s also not illegal to walk through a North Philadelphia Housing Project at 2am on a summer night. But I wouldn’t encourage it.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Duty to Inform ....question based on actual expeirence

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    All true.

    It’s also not illegal to walk through a North Philadelphia Housing Project at 2am on a summer night. But I wouldn’t encourage it.
    OK , you stop someone for a traffic violation. You approach and ask if they have any weapons (do you do that?). They either say no , or don't speak at all , give you the sovereign citizen or constitution schpeel , . You sense they're acting hinky , smell alcohol , see an open container or something else , and ask them to get out of the vehicle. They give you a hard time or refuse. You request other officers assist and gently persuade him out of his vehicle and find he is indeed carrying a firearm and does indeed have a LTCF.

    What do you do now?
    Last edited by abner13; July 15th, 2019 at 07:42 PM.
    I don't speak English , I talk American!

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Duty to Inform ....question based on actual expeirence

    an open container of alcohol in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle is illegal just about everywhere, so you'll be arrested for a motor vehicle violation. having a firearm is irrelevant, unless you can provide statute that states having a firearm while consuming alcohol is a firearms violation.
    Member: NJ "undocumented" Felons Club. NRA Life Member

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Duty to Inform ....question based on actual expeirence

    Quote Originally Posted by abner13 View Post
    OK , you stop someone for a traffic violation. You approach and ask if they have any weapons (do you do that?). They either say no , or don't speak at all , give you the sovereign citizen or constitution schpeel , . You sense they're acting hinky , smell alcohol , see an open container or something else , and ask them to get out of the vehicle. They give you a hard time or refuse. You request other officers assist and gently persuade him out of his vehicle and find he is indeed carrying a firearm and does indeed have a LTCF.

    What do you do now?


    Shoot the hostage.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Duty to Inform ....question based on actual expeirence

    Quote Originally Posted by abner13 View Post
    OK , you stop someone for a traffic violation. You approach and ask if they have any weapons (do you do that?). They either say no , or don't speak at all , give you the sovereign citizen or constitution schpeel , . You sense they're acting hinky , smell alcohol , see an open container or something else , and ask them to get out of the vehicle. They give you a hard time or refuse. You request other officers assist and gently persuade him out of his vehicle and find he is indeed carrying a firearm and does indeed have a LTCF.

    What do you do now?
    You have a lot going on in this scenario. The fact they have an LTCF and a firearm is not an issue, a few of the other things you mentioned could have them in handcuffs. If they get arrested they are not going to be possessing their gun in the back of the wagon or my car.

    But getting back to marinville’s statement about lying to the police and I am not just talking about possessing a legal weapon. You lie to me about the reason I stopped you, you are definitely getting a ticket or possibly arrested. You lie to me about your ID and you most likely will be getting positively identified. You lie about the validity of your Vehicle Registration, you probably will be getting Live Stopped.

    I understand the dangers of an officer manipulating your weapon after he disarms you, after you told him you were carrying. My procedure is to have you sit in your vehicle with another officer watching you. Or if on foot, sit the person on a wall or curb. If you get out of the car or off the curb against my wishes, things will change rapidly. If everything goes smoothly you will be on your way probably with a warning if it is a MVC violation. Like the saying goes, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Duty to Inform ....question based on actual expeirence

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    You have a lot going on in this scenario. The fact they have an LTCF and a firearm is not an issue, a few of the other things you mentioned could have them in handcuffs. If they get arrested they are not going to be possessing their gun in the back of the wagon or my car.

    But getting back to marinville’s statement about lying to the police and I am not just talking about possessing a legal weapon. You lie to me about the reason I stopped you, you are definitely getting a ticket or possibly arrested. You lie to me about your ID and you most likely will be getting positively identified. You lie about the validity of your Vehicle Registration, you probably will be getting Live Stopped.

    I understand the dangers of an officer manipulating your weapon after he disarms you, after you told him you were carrying. My procedure is to have you sit in your vehicle with another officer watching you. Or if on foot, sit the person on a wall or curb. If you get out of the car or off the curb against my wishes, things will change rapidly. If everything goes smoothly you will be on your way probably with a warning if it is a MVC violation. Like the saying goes, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
    Unfortunately, there is no way for a citizen to know what kind of officer they are dealing with. Not all will be reasonable, intelligent, knowledgeable, cool and collected, etc. The officer(s) you encounter on a given day may only have stupid prizes to offer.

    I do have respect for officers and the job they do, and I also realize this is a sword thst cuts both ways, but I won't allow myself to be made unreasonably vulnerable because of that. The unfortunate truth is that the officer and the citizen are adversaries in your typical encounter.
    Last edited by marinville; July 23rd, 2019 at 05:21 AM.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Duty to Inform ....question based on actual expeirence

    I would only say something if the accident resulted in me being carted away in an ambulance, if I'm able to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggies Coach View Post
    Cause white people are awesome. Happy now......LOL.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Duty to Inform ....question based on actual expeirence

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke2A View Post
    I had a very minor accident , I was rear ended at a red light , the car behind me had their foot "slip" off the break and they rolled into me . Minor damage to my rear bumper. We pulled over off the road and I called the police. The driver of the other vehicle was saying there was no visible damage so we were good . I knew there was damage albeit minor so I called the police , I wanted the report for my insurance purposes. Long story short ...I was pocket carrying my .32 in my cargo shorts and I did not tell the office I was carrying when he arrived , I just didn't want to complicate the situation and really just wanted the accident report. Was this a grey area or should I have informed the officer?
    Why would you inform? Were you in Ohio?

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