ATF Re-Defines what a "pistol" is

[:-)]

There is a popular rifle that is only available with a thick but pad to make the minimum OAL. Install the thin buttplate and it's an SBR.
So I think the longer hand grip is the same deal.

[raxar]

Because they state that

And since a smoothbore cannot be a pistol and the birds head grip/extension tube/whatever doesnt count towards overall length unless necessary for the function of the firearm it can only be an AOW if its measured <26".

No, if that were the case every shotgun and fixed stock rifle would be measured from the end of the reciever to the end of the barrel. Stop reading more into this then is there. AND NOBODY SEND THEM A FUCKING LETTER ASKING FOR CLARIFICATION

[USMC3531]

The birds head grip was specifically designed to add superfluous material not needed for function in order to gain the necessary length before the ruling. Otherwise they would have come with the standard grip.

There are also other 12ga "firearms" on the market like the AK style that were measured to the end of the tube/extension. They are still being sold as we speak.

A grip is not superfluous material. The birds head grip has been around long before the shockwave and is styled after a cut down stock

[Mr_Gixxer]

No, if that were the case every shotgun and fixed stock rifle would be measured from the end of the reciever to the end of the barrel. Stop reading more into this then is there. AND NOBODY SEND THEM A FUCKING LETTER ASKING FOR CLARIFICATION

You're talking about guns with barrel lengths greater than 18" and 16" and has nothing to do with this discussion at all. This "determination" clearly lays out what is and what isn't considered in OAL in regards to guns with shorter barrels and why and when you apply their logic in the letter to what's on the market you can easily see how they can apply it to lots of things to say for example that the Black Aces 12ga is an AOW, the Trench-12 AK 12ga is an AOW and how the birds head grip on a Tac-14 or a Shockwave could also be omitted when measuring OAL. This isn't reading more into it, it's there for all to see. Trying to say this letter only affects those who want VFGs on pistols that have folding buffer tubes is missing the whole picture.

[:-)]

Those are not pistols they are "firearms"
What people were doing was measuring pistols FIXED IT ( with pistol braces ) like rifles with stocks.


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[raxar]

Those are not pistols they are "firearms"



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Already been mentioned, but don't let facts interfere with an opportunity to panic

[buckengr]

You're talking about guns with barrel lengths greater than 18" and 16" and has nothing to do with this discussion at all. This "determination" clearly lays out what is and what isn't considered in OAL in regards to guns with shorter barrels and why and when you apply their logic in the letter to what's on the market you can easily see how they can apply it to lots of things to say for example that the Black Aces 12ga is an AOW, the Trench-12 AK 12ga is an AOW and how the birds head grip on a Tac-14 or a Shockwave could also be omitted when measuring OAL. This isn't reading more into it, it's there for all to see. Trying to say this letter only affects those who want VFGs on pistols that have folding buffer tubes is missing the whole picture.

A grip is needed to function as designed. The designers chose to include the birds head grip. Doing so serves multiple purposes: the birds head grip replicates the angle of a cut down stock which may be preferred by some people while also meeting the 26" OAL requirement. Just because a part could theoretically be omitted or exchanged for another different part that doesn't meet the OAL doesn't make the firearm, as configured, an AOW.

An MCX upper with a short barrel could be installed on any AR pistol lower and therefore omit the need for a buffer tube to function, but that doesn't mean that every AR pistol should be measured from the back of the receiver instead of the buffer tube when a traditional DI upper is installed.

A title 1 rifle is still measured with the stock extended, and may require the length of the stock fully extended to meet 26" OAL. Just because a shorter stock might exist that, when installed, could result in the rifle being shorter than 26" doesn't mean that the rifle is automatically now an SBR when it is in fact configured with the appropriate stock that allows it to meet the 26" OAL requirement.

The birds head grip is an integral part of the shockwave firearm as designed and configured. Modifying the grip could produce an AOW, but this ruling doesn't seem to change the classification because someone could modify it.

[Mr_Gixxer]

Those are not pistols they are "firearms"
What people were doing was measuring pistols like rifles with stocks.

No, what people were doing was finding their OAL with their braces unfolded and fully extended in order to add a vertical fore grip MAKING their pistol into a title 1 firearm other. The same classification used for the 12ga firearms I referenced. Only difference is a short barrel smooth bore firearm can only be an AOW or a title 1 firearm and depending on how its measured its either one or the other. This letter tells you how and why its measured.

[Mr_Gixxer]

Already been mentioned, but don't let facts interfere with an opportunity to panic

Still avoiding the ACTUAL facts but don't let that interfere with your fantasy. I could care less, honestly. If the way you interpret the ATF letter helps you sleep at night than so be it. If I'm wrong about what they said in the letter than great! I don't want this shit banned!

[Tacgunner]

Moral of the story: too many rules takes all the fun out of everything.