ATF Re-Defines what a "pistol" is

**raxar** · July 7th, 2019, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer

Still avoiding the ACTUAL facts but don't let that interfere with your fantasy. I could care less, honestly. If the way you interpret the ATF letter helps you sleep at night than so be it. If I'm wrong about what they said in the letter than great! I don't want this shit banned!

How much would you like to bet that a month from now shockwaves and tac-14's will become AOW's?

**Mr_Gixxer** · July 7th, 2019, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by raxar

How much would you like to bet that a month from now shockwaves and tac-14's will become AOW's?

Ok, so you ARE cherry picking your talking points then. There are more 12ga title 1 firearms on the market and in shooters collections than that. I've even referenced some of them.

Birds head grip aside, what are your expert thoughts on how they measure the Trench-12 or the Black Aces Tactical 12ga and whether or not they are now AOWs?

**raxar** · July 7th, 2019, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer

Ok, so you ARE cherry picking your talking points then. There are more 12ga title 1 firearms on the market and in shooters collections than that. I've even referenced some of them.

Birds head grip aside, what are your expert thoughts on how they measure the Trench-12 or the Black Aces Tactical 12ga and whether or not they are now AOWs?

The 10" barreled black aces tactical might be fucked, I would need to measure the AK pattern gun

**Mr_Gixxer** · July 7th, 2019, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by raxar

The 10" barreled black aces tactical might be fucked, I would need to measure the AK pattern gun

Seriously, I didn't mean to come across as confrontational and by no means am I trying to spread unwarranted fear, I just felt like some things needed to be addressed because the thread title is kind of misleading once you read into this more. Also I am by no means a lawyer nor an expert. I hope that I can help shed some light on the situation with my experience with some of the firearms that could be affected by all of this and state my opinion.

**USMC3531** · July 7th, 2019, 06:47 PM

Yes the black aces and the ak 12ga is up in the air.... but the shockwave isn't going to end up an aow, but at any time could become a Destructive Device, the only thing keeping them out of DD is the sporting exemption that doesnt apply to all 12ga ie street sweeper

**Mr_Gixxer** · July 7th, 2019, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by USMC3531

Yes the black aces and the ak 12ga is up in the air.... but the shockwave isn't going to end up an aow, but at any time could become a Destructive Device, the only thing keeping them out of DD is the sporting exemption that doesnt apply to all 12ga ie street sweeper

Not only that but tac 14s and shockwaves and the like that were sold or changed to have the brace adapters too.

**Hodgie** · July 7th, 2019, 07:25 PM

This just popped into my feed. I haven’t watched it yet but figured I’d post it since Adam wrote the article for Recoil on the new determination.

**Mr_Gixxer** · July 8th, 2019, 08:15 AM

Another interesting note for those who were concerned about "length of pull" measurements, since the brace isn't counted for measurement purposes then the 13.5" LOP is out the window.

**Mr_Gixxer** · August 4th, 2019, 07:44 PM

Just so we're clear here, they reclassified how pistols are measured. That's it. Over 26" the way they currently measure them and they can become a title 1 firearm other with the addition of a VFG.

This was in response to PickingPA.