ATF Re-Defines what a "pistol" is

**Hodgie** · July 7th, 2019, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer

But receiver extensions/buffer tubes are counted.

From what the clarification letter says only the tube itself is used to measure if it's required for function of the pistol like the AR15. If it's an AK pistol then no it does not count since the AK does not require the tube to function but to hold the brace in place so therefore it's an accessory and cannot be used to measure.

**Mr_Gixxer** · July 7th, 2019, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer

But receiver extensions/buffer tubes are counted.

Actually, this sentence contradicts this belief too.

accessories (extensions) that have superfluous material are not included in the overall length measurement because they are intended to circumvent the law and serve no purpose in the function of the firearm

This means all the shockwave 12ga firearms are now AOWs along with a slew of other guns.

Edit, hodgie kind of beat me to it.

**Hodgie** · July 7th, 2019, 12:32 PM

FYI: The YouTube video posted here and any other one released in the subject are in response to the article written on the subject by Pennsylvania firearms attorney and forum member Adam Kraut in Recoil Magazine. I don't see any of this as being a large nothing burger or "firearms fear mongering" for YouTube views that gain them zero dollars. It's apparently sparked a lot of questions because there's many manufacturers configuring and their pistols with vertical grips and this may put a lot of people in the hot seats who bought them.

Yes they can be removed no harm no foul but if you don't read recoil magazines web site how the Hell would you know?

Here's the recent article.
https://www.recoilweb.com/measuring-...al-151346.html

**Mr_Gixxer** · July 7th, 2019, 12:33 PM

This does more than that. This redefines what a 12ga title 1 firearm is.

**raxar** · July 7th, 2019, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer

This does more than that. This redefines what a 12ga title 1 firearm is.

How? firearms are not pistols

**Mr_Gixxer** · July 7th, 2019, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by raxar

How? firearms are not pistols

Because they state that

accessories (extensions) that have superfluous material are not included in the overall length measurement because they are intended to circumvent the law and serve no purpose in the function of the firearm

And since a smoothbore cannot be a pistol and the birds head grip/extension tube/whatever doesnt count towards overall length unless necessary for the function of the firearm it can only be an AOW if its measured <26".

**USMC3531** · July 7th, 2019, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

Sure, an easy solution, IF you're aware of it. How many will get caught up with a serious legal problem because of a "policy change" that they're completely unaware of?

Gun owners have enough trouble keeping up with actual laws.

The people buying/building "loophole" guns follow gun pages/forums

**:-)** · July 7th, 2019, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer

But receiver extensions/buffer tubes are counted.

Not if you just slap one on a pistol so you can mount your pistol brace.
AR15 needs the tube to function.

**:-)** · July 7th, 2019, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer

Actually, this sentence contradicts this belief too.

This means all the shockwave 12ga firearms are now AOWs along with a slew of other guns.

Edit, hodgie kind of beat me to it.

Shockwave needs the grip to function.

**Mr_Gixxer** · July 7th, 2019, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by :-)

Shockwave needs the grip to function.

The birds head grip was specifically designed to add superfluous material not needed for function in order to gain the necessary length before the ruling. Otherwise they would have come with the standard grip.

There are also other 12ga "firearms" on the market like the AK style that were measured to the end of the tube/extension. They are still being sold as we speak.