Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: ATF Re-Defines what a "pistol" is

    Makes me want to build another pistol!
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  2. #12
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    Default Re: ATF Re-Defines what a "pistol" is

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    So take the vertical foregrip off and you are compliant.
    Sure, an easy solution, IF you're aware of it. How many will get caught up with a serious legal problem because of a "policy change" that they're completely unaware of?

    Gun owners have enough trouble keeping up with actual laws.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: ATF Re-Defines what a "pistol" is

    Quote Originally Posted by :-) View Post
    A brace isn't part of a pistol, it's an "accessory".
    You don't count the brace at all in OAL, the same way you don't count muzzle "accessories".



    .
    But muzzle accessors do count, yes? A flash hider changes a 14 1/2" barrel (pistol) to a 16" (rifle) classification, doesn't it?
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others.
    Thomas Jefferson


  4. #14
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    Default Re: ATF Re-Defines what a "pistol" is

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    Sure, an easy solution, IF you're aware of it. How many will get caught up with a serious legal problem because of a "policy change" that they're completely unaware of?

    Gun owners have enough trouble keeping up with actual laws.
    the way i read this Rehaif v. United States, 588 U.S https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/588/17-9560/ we are going to the dogs.....it seems now-a-day you don't even need to know OR if you get caught just "claim" ignorance....
    Last edited by 51158; July 7th, 2019 at 11:15 AM.
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others.
    Thomas Jefferson


  5. #15
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    Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania
    (Lehigh County)
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    Default Re: ATF Re-Defines what a "pistol" is

    Quote Originally Posted by 51158 View Post
    But muzzle accessors do count, yes? A flash hider changes a 14 1/2" barrel (pistol) to a 16" (rifle) classification, doesn't it?
    This requires the hider to be pinned and welded (made permanent) which is not the same as a threaded unit that can be changed at will.
    Illegitimus non carborundum est

  6. #16
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    Default Re: ATF Re-Defines what a "pistol" is

    Quote Originally Posted by 51158 View Post
    But muzzle accessors do count, yes? A flash hider changes a 14 1/2" barrel (pistol) to a 16" (rifle) classification, doesn't it?
    NO.

    Quote Originally Posted by gghbi View Post
    This requires the hider to be pinned and welded (made permanent) which is not the same as a threaded unit that can be changed at will.
    YES.
    If a muzzle device is made permanent as described, that counts to overall length.
    PITTSBURGH PAFOA Group Shoot! THIS SATURDAY, Aug 17th - Click here for info

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Mill Hall, Pennsylvania
    (Clinton County)
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    Default Re: ATF Re-Defines what a "pistol" is

    Quote Originally Posted by :-) View Post
    A brace isn't part of a pistol, it's an "accessory".
    You don't count the brace at all in OAL, the same way you don't count muzzle "accessories".



    .
    But receiver extensions/buffer tubes are counted.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    μολ ν λαβέ
    What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!

  8. #18
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    Southampton, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: ATF Re-Defines what a "pistol" is

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    NO.



    YES.
    If a muzzle device is made permanent as described, that counts to overall length.
    30min later?

    But thanks for clarifying, didn't understand gg's response, but eyes doo unerstand NO! apreeciate da caps! eyes kant sea very good bcause i is old.....
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others.
    Thomas Jefferson


  9. #19
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    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    Default Re: ATF Re-Defines what a "pistol" is

    Quote Originally Posted by 51158 View Post
    But muzzle accessors do count, yes? A flash hider changes a 14 1/2" barrel (pistol) to a 16" (rifle) classification, doesn't it?
    NO, accessories do not count toward the over all length of a barrel unless permanently installed. A pistol can have a barrel as long as you want, just cannot have a long stock on it (read as no shoulder stock). A stabilizing brace has already been determined by the BATFE as an accessory and NOT as a shoulder stock and they ruled that if a shooter places a stabilizing brace on their shoulder, they HAVE NOT changed the physical make up of the handgun and it does not become a short barreled rifle by doing this.

    Yes, receiver extensions/buffer tubes are counted for the OAL but still does not change the fact that it is a pistol (speaking about an AR style pistol).

    Handguns are defined in Title 27 CFR Chapter II Part 478 Subpart B - Definitions (478.11) HANDGUN: (a) Any firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and (b) Any combination of parts from which a firearm described in paragraph (a) can be assembled.

    Want to be confused some more??? Build an AR pistol with a 14" barrel and a long buffer tube that makes the OAL over 26 inches. What do you have???

    What you have is a,,,,, Pistol Grip Firearm, which is a correct nomenclature for the type of firearm (as used on the BATFE Form 4473 when filling in the TYPE of firearm on the form). This is the same category as the Mossberg Shockwave and the Remington TAC -13 and Tac-14 fall under.
    Last edited by Xringshooter; July 7th, 2019 at 12:03 PM.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  10. #20
    Join Date
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    Southampton, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: ATF Re-Defines what a "pistol" is

    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    NO, accessories do not count toward the over all length of a barrel unless permanently installed. A pistol can have a barrel as long as you want, just cannot have a long stock on it (read as no shoulder stock). A stabilizing brace has already been determined by the BATFE as an accessory and NOT as a shoulder stock and they ruled that if a shooter places a stabilizing brace on their shoulder, they HAVE NOT changed the physical make up of the handgun and it does not become a short barreled rifle by doing this.

    Handguns are defined in Title 27 CFR Chapter II Part 478 Subpart B - Definitions (478.11) HANDGUN: (a) Any firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and (b) Any combination of parts from which a firearm described in paragraph (a) can be assembled.
    Thanks for clarifying, never know what's coming down the pike from AFT, ATF made 2 decisions about bump stock with obama, our guy trump tells ATF to find a way to change and wala they're made illegal (I think it's even expost facto which is un constitutional)(I know it's debatable if I'm right) the new ATF appointee hasn't been very friendly to Gun owners in the past so I don't know what to expect
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others.
    Thomas Jefferson


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