Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2019
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    Lansdale, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: FFL Screwed Up Paperwork

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    One quick & dirty hack would be to take your gun to a better FFL, and have him log it in correctly and transfer it to you correctly, generating a new Record of Sale form. It will cost a little, but at least the ROSDB will have an entry for the gun you have in hand; downside is that the other entry will still be there, but you have a plausible explanation for it, and nobody will be looking to seize your pistol.
    Thanks. I'm likely going to end up doing this. Just sucks that I have to basically pay $80 to register one gun. I seriously can't believe there's no additional recourse in a situation where an FFL is unwilling to cooperate. I'm going out of my way to fix their records and the state police is telling me to pound sand. I understand that opens up opportunities for owners to falsify records to help cover their tracks, but all they'd have to do is make one phone call to the manufacturer to confirm the new info.

    On a positive note it looks to me like SIG Sauer uses different (unique) serial numbering between the P238 and P938 models. So I don't think there's any risk of overlap if anything ever gets reported stolen or whatever. However I can definitely see them giving me a hard time returning the firearm if it's ever seized for anything. Either I pay $80 now or I end up paying even more in lawyer fees and time off work to try to get my property back. That's the way I see things at this point.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Somewhere, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: FFL Screwed Up Paperwork

    Quote Originally Posted by mmmoose View Post
    Thanks. I'm likely going to end up doing this. Just sucks that I have to basically pay $80 to register one gun. I seriously can't believe there's no additional recourse in a situation where an FFL is unwilling to cooperate. I'm going out of my way to fix their records and the state police is telling me to pound sand. I understand that opens up opportunities for owners to falsify records to help cover their tracks, but all they'd have to do is make one phone call to the manufacturer to confirm the new info.

    On a positive note it looks to me like SIG Sauer uses different (unique) serial numbering between the P238 and P938 models. So I don't think there's any risk of overlap if anything ever gets reported stolen or whatever. However I can definitely see them giving me a hard time returning the firearm if it's ever seized for anything. Either I pay $80 now or I end up paying even more in lawyer fees and time off work to try to get my property back. That's the way I see things at this point.
    Why should you have to pay $80 for a paperwork error by the dealer? You followed the law. It’s not a registration of ownership. Besides, what do people do when they swap out a handgun barrel to convert from one caliber to another? I doubt most go through the handgun transfer process to transfer it to themselves at the dealer or sheriff’s office every time they change it to another caliber.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: FFL Screwed Up Paperwork

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    None of the FFL's I work with would dismiss an inaccuracy in their bound book as unimportant.

    One quick & dirty hack would be to take your gun to a better FFL, and have him log it in correctly and transfer it to you correctly, generating a new Record of Sale form. It will cost a little, but at least the ROSDB will have an entry for the gun you have in hand;
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosinshooter762 View Post
    Why should you have to pay $80 for a paperwork error by the dealer? You followed the law. It’s not a registration of ownership. Besides, what do people do when they swap out a handgun barrel to convert from one caliber to another? I doubt most go through the handgun transfer process to transfer it to themselves at the dealer or sheriff’s office every time they change it to another caliber.


    I don't know why its $80 Seem a bit high for a transfer $20 to 40 seems to be the norm..

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Lansdale, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: FFL Screwed Up Paperwork

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosinshooter762 View Post
    Besides, what do people do when they swap out a handgun barrel to convert from one caliber to another? I doubt most go through the handgun transfer process to transfer it to themselves at the dealer or sheriff’s office every time they change it to another caliber.
    I was wondering this myself. Manufacturers like SIG and Beretta legally sell barrel kits to convert their pistols to .22 LR, .40, etc. I guess caliber is less important. But I feel like the model should match up.

    I work in QC for a medical device company and over the years I've learned why it's important to be super anal about keeping accurate records sometimes. If for example the frame is damaged and they can only run a partial serial #, they might be able to help narrow it down if they knew the specific model of the gun. Say for example the first or last letter in the serial number is illegible. But we know the gun is a Beretta M9A3 made in 2018 ("IT18" proof mark). Based on that info we can figure out that the first and last letters are "B" and "Z" because Beretta uses the format "B######Z".

    The more data points you have the better the chances of tracing a firearm. And when we're talking about court cases here, they typically want more evidence than just a serial #. They want to know all the specifics down to model and caliber used in the incident. Undeniable proof like that can mean the difference in proving someone's innocence or guilt. So when the FFL said the serial # alone is "just fine", that put up a red flag for me.

    And yeah, I know there's an argument to be made as to whether any of this paperwork is constitutional to begin with. Unfortunately the reality of it is that the police are already using this info as a registry whether we like it or not. They CAN and WILL confiscate your property and make your life a living hell if you give them any reason to be suspicious. I've personally known people that had to fight to get their property back from police. I really don't want to end up being in that same position.
    Last edited by mmmoose; May 22nd, 2019 at 05:54 PM.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Penn area, Pennsylvania
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    59
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    Default Re: FFL Screwed Up Paperwork

    Not sure what yours says , but 9mm is technically correct since many .380 pistols do say 9mm Kurz , 9mm Corto , 9x17mm , 9mm Browning Short , etc.

    My Polish P-64 chambered in 9x18 Makarov simply says 9mm.
    I don't speak English , I talk American!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Lansdale, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: FFL Screwed Up Paperwork

    Quote Originally Posted by JDA58 View Post
    I don't know why its $80 Seem a bit high for a transfer $20 to 40 seems to be the norm..
    The $40 from the first time they did it (with the mistake). Then another $40 to have another FFL do the transfer with the corrected info. I'm effectively paying $80 to legally own a pocket .380 ACP pistol with accurate paperwork.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: FFL Screwed Up Paperwork

    Quote Originally Posted by mmmoose View Post
    The $40 from the first time they did it (with the mistake). Then another $40 to have another FFL do the transfer with the corrected info. I'm effectively paying $80 to legally own a pocket .380 ACP pistol with accurate paperwork.
    ok

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: FFL Screwed Up Paperwork

    If you're going to take a financial hit, spread the pain around. Give GunLawyer 100 bucks to call the guy on your behalf, making it clear you are asking for correction for the final time before calling BATFE to complain.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Southwest, Pennsylvania
    (Washington County)
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    Default Re: FFL Screwed Up Paperwork

    Its your prerogative, but I wouldn't be pulling my hair out to make sure the government has their registry detailed correctly. To each his own.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Penn area, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: FFL Screwed Up Paperwork

    So what shop was it?

    Gunfolks can be a persnickety bunch. Some customer feedback (peer pressure?) could help them change their ways.
    I don't speak English , I talk American!

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