Who's had bad experiences with Game Commission Officers?

**cms81586** · May 19th, 2008, 11:01 PM

I'm not talking about getting caught doing something you definitely weren't supposed to be doing and being mad about it, but true problems. I was fined $128.50 along with a friend (same fine) for shooting 7 rounds out of a 1911 multiple times at a state game land range. It was both of ours first trips to a SGL range and we read the rules when we got there. It said nothing about 3 rnds in a rifle and 6 in a handgun. We know better now, but if the rule is so important then it should be posted. The WCO was sitting in the weeds with binos writing down each time we did so for over 40 mins. We took down our targets and were picking up our brass when he came out and slapped us both with citations. Ignorance of the law is no excuse but we were being very responsible and left the range nicer than when we got there. It wouldn't have been hard for him to give us a warning. He also inspected all of our firearms and wrote down serial numbers and models (taking the ATF's job now?). He also tried to tell us that it's illegal to have more than 3/6 at any range in PA...even private sportsmans ranges. When I told him we also belonged to Cresson Sportsmans he told us he was going to have to stop there and let the president of the club know about the "law". Oh well.

The second time was shooting at the farm with a PSL. It was in the middle of summer and he drove by and saw me shooting. It was a different officer and he bitched about shooting a rifle like that and tried to accuse me of shooting at turkeys that came out while we were talking, even though there was a target sitting in the middle of the field plain as day... I basically asked him to stop harrassing me and that there is no law against target shooting on private property.

Anyone else have lousy experiences with WCO's? I know of one that's a nice guy but every other one I've run into seems to be on a power trip.

Also, is it true they can inspect your property and house without a warrant? What can you do to stop them from coming onto your property? I'd like to see one try to come into my house and check my freezer... Do they need probable cause or reasonable suspicion to perform a search?

CMS

**LittleRedToyota** · May 19th, 2008, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by cms81586

Also, is it true they can inspect your property and house without a warrant? What can you do to stop them from coming onto your property? I'd like to see one try to come into my house and check my freezer... Do they need probable cause or reasonable suspicion to perform a search?

they can come onto your land at any time without a warrant (the state supreme court upheld this year or so ago under the "open fields" doctrine).

PA state law attempts to give them the power to perform baseless searches of your person, car, hunting camp, etc. but i gotta think these would not stand up to a 4th amendment challenge in court if there were not at least RAS.

still coming into your house is a different story. even under the absurdity know as PA game law, they need a search warrant.

btw, here is the relevant portion of law:

from: http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/v...8&q=151035#901

Sec. 901. Powers and duties of enforcement officers.

(a) Powers. - Any officer whose duty it is to enforce this title or any officer investigating any alleged violation of this title shall have the power and duty to:

...

(6) Stop and inspect or search, at any time, any means of transportation within this Commonwealth. Any officer who stops any means of transportation shall be in uniform and present a badge or other means of official identification and state the purpose of the inspection or search.

(7) Inspect and examine or search, at any time or place, any person or means of transportation or its attachment or occupants, or any clothing worn by any person, or any bag, clothing or container when the officer presents official identification and states the purpose of the inspection or search.

(8) Inspect and examine or search, at any time, any camp, tent, cabin, trailer or any means of transportation or its attachment being used when the officer presents official identification to the person in charge and states the purpose of the inspection or search.

(9) Secure and execute all warrants and search warrants for violations of this title or, with proper consent, to search or enter any building, dwelling, house, tavern, hotel, boardinghouse, enclosure, vehicle or craft or any attachments thereto, to open, by whatever means necessary, any door, compartment, chest, locker, box, trunk, bag, basket, package or container and to examine the contents thereof and seize any evidence or contraband found therein.

**cms81586** · May 20th, 2008, 12:56 AM

Thanks for the info. I was never sure but knew that they had more freedom for searches than the police. I guess the only thing you can do then is file a complaint with the PGC if you keep having problems. It's one thing if they're on the fields looking around, but when they start trying to enforce "No Motorized Vehicle" signs they put up on field roads they're crossing the line. I drive the fields daily when I'm home looking for groundhogs/coyote and checking for college kids screwing off up there. I already removed the sign once and they put it back up. It just pisses me off when they come and accuse me of shooting at game instead of being professional and chatting. They're about the only public officials that I can think of that can be complete assholes all the time and not be removed from their position... Sorry...I'm just venting. Either way, I have almost no respect for the PGC anymore.

CMS

**XD40coyote** · May 20th, 2008, 01:33 AM

I distrust the PGC, I have read too many rediculous stories, and I know of someone who was hassled up the ass about 2 otters he accidently trapped while beaver trapping. Like duh, the creek runs into MD and is full of otters, hello? I have caught 6 there legally, over 3 seasons, on the MD side. Some are pretty big and there is no way to exclude a big otter from a bodygripping beaver trap. Otters swim all around beaver ponds, poke into the lodge, swim in the channels the beavers use,etc. I have never felt Big Brother looming over me when dealing with the MD DNR, but when I have trapped in PA, and when I had a taxidermy studio in PA, I felt like Big Brother was watching me. I also heard a story where 1 DNR guy was a jackass but was doing it in cahoots with a PGC guy, and plain hassled a guy over a fox that was illegally trapped. Suppossedly they had the fox and a tagged trap in the back of the DNR officers vehicle while they hassled this guy, confiscated from the scene of the "crime". The trap tag was a PA trapper's, NOT the guy they were hassling.

BTW the DNR officer never came by to inspect my taxidermy records this spring, like they have done every year since 1995. I couldn't even get 1 raised from the dead to tag my 2 otters. Had to meet some biologist guy half way at some DNR substation in Harford county to have him tag them for me. Inept for sure, but at least no hassling and Big Brother eyes looming.

**LittleRedToyota** · May 20th, 2008, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by cms81586

Thanks for the info. I was never sure but knew that they had more freedom for searches than the police. I guess the only thing you can do then is file a complaint with the PGC if you keep having problems. It's one thing if they're on the fields looking around, but when they start trying to enforce "No Motorized Vehicle" signs they put up on field roads they're crossing the line. I drive the fields daily when I'm home looking for groundhogs/coyote and checking for college kids screwing off up there. I already removed the sign once and they put it back up. It just pisses me off when they come and accuse me of shooting at game instead of being professional and chatting. They're about the only public officials that I can think of that can be complete assholes all the time and not be removed from their position... Sorry...I'm just venting. Either way, I have almost no respect for the PGC anymore.

CMS

let me get this straight...

they are trying to post your road on your land as "no motorized vehicles"???

**cms81586** · May 20th, 2008, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

let me get this straight...

they are trying to post your road on your land as "no motorized vehicles"???

Not my land, but the guy who owns the farm that I'm good friends with.

**LittleRedToyota** · May 20th, 2008, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by cms81586

Not my land, but the guy who owns the farm that I'm good friends with.

i see...but it is still a private road on private property?

**P89** · May 20th, 2008, 01:08 PM

They gave me a hard time once for NOT carrying a firearm.
I was pushing thicket in a swamp, had all the right orange & my tag on my back...just no firearm. They even patted me down to make sure I wasn't carrying concealed.

**Buckmark.35** · May 20th, 2008, 02:16 PM

Wow. I've had a PGC officer check out my license and ask for ID once but that was it. I'd also be interested to see where it's "law" to have only 3/6 in firearms at the range (I'm sure that's the cast at SGL ranges, but private ones?). Talk about a ridiculous notion.