I don't understand the 'higher end' 1911

[Doug570]

I love these threads! You want it, it fits, you can shoot it well....BUY IT! Most any gun is more accurate than most shooters. Taken care of a gun is a lifetime investment. Anything produced by man can fail. I have had Colts and still have 1, have Kimbers, Sigs, Dan Wessons Smith & Wesson and all have been fine guns. Love to have a Les Baer and will someday but just as happy with what I have now. Enjoy shooting!

[abner13]

the tolerances are blueprinted and couldn't be more perfect.

Wow , talk about no concept of manufacturing.

'' tol·er·ance , an allowable amount of variation of a specified quantity, especially in the dimensions of a machine or part.

The word tolerance is grossly misused , especially in gun magazines. Or by people who don't run machines every day.

As my mentor taught me, "You work to dimensions , not tolerances.'' Tolerances are an amount of allowable error. If a print says a part should be .750" +/- .005" , +/- .005" is the tolerance. Which means the part can measure .745 ~ .755. Which meant parts could fit sloppy , or too tight.

Then there's the problems of overlapping or accumulating tolerances. The reason for hand fitting.

In the old days , blank engineering (blueprint) sheets had a grid with standard tolerances based on decimal position. 2-place decimals (.XX) were usually +/- .010" , 3-place decimals (.XXX) were usually +/- .005 unless otherwise stated. +.002" ~ -.000 , or , + .000 ~ -.002". Hopefully the engineer , designer or draftsman knew what they were doing. Anyone else have/remember drafting or mechanical drawing classes in school?

Modern 'geometric tolerancing' standards are a totally different system and are geared more to CNC machining and CMM measuring.

[RockIsland]

Wow , talk about no concept of manufacturing.

'' tol·er·ance , an allowable amount of variation of a specified quantity, especially in the dimensions of a machine or part.

The word tolerance is grossly misused , especially in gun magazines. Or by people who don't run machines every day.

As my mentor taught me, "You work to dimensions , not tolerances.'' Tolerances are an amount of allowable error. If a print says a part should be .750" +/- .005" , +/- .005" is the tolerance. Which means the part can measure .745 ~ .755.

In the old days , blank engineering (blueprint) sheets had a grid with standard tolerances based on decimal position. 2-place decimals (.XX) were usually +/- .010" , 3-place decimals (.XXX) were usually +/- .005 unless otherwise stated. +.002" ~ -.000 , or , + .000 ~ -.002". Anyone else have drafting or mechanical drawing classes in school?

Modern 'geometric tolerancing' standards are a totally different system and are geared more to CNC machining and CMM measuring.

Some have no concept of sarcasm.

[Hodgie]

Anyone else have drafting or mechanical drawing classes in school?

I did my sophomore and Junior year and I remember enjoying it a lot, sadly I'm not even sure it's taught
anymore. I know the program along with metal and auto shop were killed a year or two after I graduated which was in 1995.

[abner13]

I did my sophomore and Junior year and I remember enjoying it a lot, sadly I'm not even sure it's taught
anymore. I know the program along with metal and auto shop were killed a year or two after I graduated which was in 1995.

Nope , everything is done on a computer , CAD/CAM , computer aided drafting or design . computer aided machining.

Had to go to the local community college for 2 weeks for their Geometric Tolerancing course. But ya can't teach an old dog new tricks they don't want to learn. I still draw stuff with instruments and a pencil. I give it to my college co-op to draw on the computer. He never saw a set of drafting tools before.

[Hodgie]

Nope , everything is done on a computer , CAD/CAM , computer aided drafting or design . computer aided machining.

Had to go to the local community college for 2 weeks for their Geometric Tolerancing course. But ya can't teach an old dog new tricks they don't want to learn. I still draw stuff with instruments and a pencil. I give it to my college co-op to draw on the computer. He never saw a set of drafting tools before.

I still have all my drafting tools they gave me in class. I bet one day we will see tools like a protractor and a strait edge in a museum.

[abner13]

I still have all my drafting tools they gave me in class. I bet one day we will see tools like a protractor and a strait edge in a museum.

Alvin , Leitz or Dietzgen?

The Kuhnhausen books on the 1911 have the dimensional drawings for every part and aspect of the 1911.

Many of the 1911 parts took several operations on many different purposely built machines. Single machines built to do 1 single operation on 1 single part. Wear and tear on those machines led to ''tolerances'' , and the need for hand fitting of parts.


Modern machinery is simply amazing. Hardened and hard-chromed wear surfaces and pressure lubrication means very low wear factors. Able to work to and hold dimensions unimaginable in 1911 , or 1951 , or 1981. Unfortunately many of JMB's part designs do not lend themselves well to modern CNC manufacturing machines and methods. If it weren't for investment casting and MIM , all 1911's would be in the 2-3K range.

[abner13]

Not to perpetuate the hate on 1911s, but have you ever run a class with one? Fired +500rds in a day etc and had no issues?

I think ammo would be a bigger factor in that. Some ammo is simply much dirtier than others.

My 1960 Colt Gold Cup National Match is what I consider the high water mark for production 1911s , and is tight , extremely accurate and reliable if kept reasonably clean.

But I think my loose as a goose 1943 USGI Remington Rand would easily run thru 500rds of the dirtiest ammo which would lock up my GC.

[Walleye Hunter]

I think ammo would be a bigger factor in that. Some ammo is simply much dirtier than others.

My 1960 Colt Gold Cup National Match is what I consider the high water mark for production 1911s , and is tight , extremely accurate and reliable if kept reasonably clean.

But I think my loose as a goose 1943 USGI Remington Rand would easily run thru 500rds of the dirtiest ammo which would lock up my GC.

I'd like to hear examples of what brand is dirty and what is clean if you have it (and I figure you know it off the top of your head).

[abner13]

I'd like to hear examples of what brand is dirty and what is clean if you have it (and I figure you know it off the top of your head).

Commercial ammo? Who knows. Some powder lots are just dirtier than others. And generally , ammo loaded with hardcast & lubed lead bullets will gunk up a pistol quicker than jacketed. And some slower-burning flake powders are dirtier than ball or small-grain powders like Bullseye or 231. Unique was one of the dirtiest large flake powders I ever saw. One of the Hodgdon ''Clays'' was the cleanest.

I had some Olympic (Greek) 9mm ammo that was simply the cleanest ammo I've ever seen , regardless of caliber. A few hundred rounds and my CZ-75 was still reasonably clean. The brass looked like it was ready to reload. Yet I've heard some shooters say Olympic was the dirtiest ammo they every fired.

The cheaper 'promo' ammo like American Eagle , Rem-UMC , Win-USA or 'white box' , is usually pretty dirty.

In .45 ACP , I mostly shoot my own loads.