Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default I don't understand the 'higher end' 1911

    This is not to offend anyone with a hand-fit 1911. I just don't get them.

    Here's what rubs me wrong. I've owned over the years 8 Colt 1911's, 2 of which were 3" guns, a commander, and several 5 inch government models. All brand new. ALL of them worked 100 percent out of the box. Even the little Defender models. Never had a single malfunction. They are loose, they rattle a bit when new. But they WORK!!!

    Why is it that the Dan Wesson's the Les Baer's, and all the other hand-fit, super tight 1911's specify a 500 round break-in period?? The Dan Wesson comes with an instruction manual that mandates 3-500 round break in, with the special oil that comes with the gun, cleaned every 50 rounds. I don't get this. If I pay 1,500+ for a top end 1911, I want the gun to go bang every single time, right out of the box, like all my Colts did. Why does the customer have to do the rest of the fitting work that should have been done at the factory?? I'm betting my life, and the life of my kid, on this thing. Why should I go through 10 boxes of ammo, with the expectation to experience all sorts of failures, and then hope the damned thing starts working around the 700 round mark??

    Could someone explain to me why this is acceptable in an expensive 1911? I'd want the thing to go bang from round 1, forever.

    thanks.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: I don't understand the 'higher end' 1911

    Not to perpetuate the hate on 1911s, but have you ever run a class with one? Fired +500rds in a day etc and had no issues?

    I have a "budget" Ruger in 9mm and its also never not gone bang, however, one and two instances do not buck the trend.
    Una Salus Victis Nullam Sperare Salutem

  3. #3
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    Default Re: I don't understand the 'higher end' 1911

    Quote Originally Posted by lts1ow View Post
    Not to perpetuate the hate on 1911s, but have you ever run a class with one? Fired +500rds in a day etc and had no issues?

    I have a "budget" Ruger in 9mm and its also never not gone bang, however, one and two instances do not buck the trend.
    You raise a good point. All guns are subject to failures.

    I guess I'm speaking more to the philosophy aspect. Colt 1911's seem to always work, more like a SIG or a Glock. I even had a budget Springfield GI model. 100 percent. But the higher end 1911's (like my Dan Wesson) are much more 'delicate' right out of the gates, and the manufacturer makes a point to emphasize this 'kid gloves' treatment.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: I don't understand the 'higher end' 1911

    They're built extra tight so that when they break in, the tolerances are blueprinted and couldn't be more perfect.

    They're super nice but I couldn't afford one. I'd probably have a few if I could.

    Who knows, I prefer shooting a Parkerized RIA GI model over my 70 Series Gold Cup.

    Quote Originally Posted by lts1ow View Post
    Not to perpetuate the hate on 1911s, but have you ever run a class with one? Fired +500rds in a day etc and had no issues?
    Quote Originally Posted by lts1ow View Post

    I have a "budget" Ruger in 9mm and its also never not gone bang, however, one and two instances do not buck the trend.


    Above said $350 Rock Island has never even hiccuped. Somewhere over 1000 rounds through it.

    It's match grade accurate, and an awesome steel pinger. Everyone that shoots it instantly falls in love.

    It's kind of surreal.
    Last edited by RockIsland; May 17th, 2019 at 06:01 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: I don't understand the 'higher end' 1911

    Quote Originally Posted by American1776 View Post
    You raise a good point. All guns are subject to failures.

    I guess I'm speaking more the the philosophy aspect. Colt 1911's seem to always work, more like a SIG or a Glock. the higher end 1911's (like my Dan Wesson) are much more 'delicate' right out of the gates, and the manufacturer makes a point to emphasize this 'kid gloves' treatment.
    Agreed, and personally, spending +2k on a gun that has a "break in" period is wayy out of my spending league. And to add, this is fucking 2019, why the hell can't things be machine perfectly such that no "break in" is required. That, has always blown my mind.

    But, this is America and folks can blow their money how they see fit.
    Una Salus Victis Nullam Sperare Salutem

  6. #6
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    Default Re: I don't understand the 'higher end' 1911

    Quote Originally Posted by RockIsland View Post
    They're built extra tight so that when they break in, the tolerances are blueprinted and couldn't be more perfect.

    They're super nice but I couldn't afford one. I'd probably have a few if I could.

    Who knows, I prefer shooting a Parkerized RIA GI model over my 70 Series Gold Cup.
    I've got a Dan Wesson. It's super nice..but not as reliable as my Colts. It shoots just fine, very accurate. But every now and then it chokes. And it needs to be soaked with lube.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: I don't understand the 'higher end' 1911

    Quote Originally Posted by American1776 View Post
    This is not to offend anyone with a hand-fit 1911. I just don't get them.

    Here's what rubs me wrong. I've owned over the years 8 Colt 1911's, 2 of which were 3" guns, a commander, and several 5 inch government models. All brand new. ALL of them worked 100 percent out of the box. Even the little Defender models. Never had a single malfunction. They are loose, they rattle a bit when new. But they WORK!!!

    Why is it that the Dan Wesson's the Les Baer's, and all the other hand-fit, super tight 1911's specify a 500 round break-in period?? The Dan Wesson comes with an instruction manual that mandates 3-500 round break in, with the special oil that comes with the gun, cleaned every 50 rounds. I don't get this. If I pay 1,500+ for a top end 1911, I want the gun to go bang every single time, right out of the box, like all my Colts did. Why does the customer have to do the rest of the fitting work that should have been done at the factory?? I'm betting my life, and the life of my kid, on this thing. Why should I go through 10 boxes of ammo, with the expectation to experience all sorts of failures, and then hope the damned thing starts working around the 700 round mark??

    Could someone explain to me why this is acceptable in an expensive 1911? I'd want the thing to go bang from round 1, forever.

    thanks.
    I've had a Wilson and a Nighthawk. I've also had several Colts (not all of them were reliable) and my only 1911 right now is a Colt.

    A hand-fit 1911 is joy to shoot and the attention to detail make them exceptional firearms. With that said, some folks are perfectly happy with a Camry and scoff at those that would drop $80,000 grand on a Lexus. They both get you from point A to point B and do so competently. Trying to explain why I'd spend $60,000 grand more for the joy of driving a Lexus over a Camry--some things are luxuries that need no justification beyond the joy they bring.
    "A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself"

    "He created the game, played the game, and lost the game.... All under his own terms, by his own doing." JW34

    "Tolerance is the lube that helps slip the dildo of dysfunction into the ass of a civilized society." Plato

  8. #8
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    Default Re: I don't understand the 'higher end' 1911

    Quote Originally Posted by lts1ow View Post
    And to add, this is fucking 2019, why the hell can't things be machine perfectly such that no "break in" is required. That, has always blown my mind.
    it doesnt work that way with moving metal parts.....same thing with brand new cars....there is a so many mile break in period where you shouldn't beat on the engine that hard.
    it's only metal, we can out think it....

  9. #9
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    Default Re: I don't understand the 'higher end' 1911

    No other handgun on earth feels and runs like a custom or well broken in 1911.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: I don't understand the 'higher end' 1911

    Quote Originally Posted by American1776 View Post
    I've got a Dan Wesson. It's super nice..but not as reliable as my Colts. It shoots just fine, very accurate. But every now and then it chokes. And it needs to be soaked with lube.
    I have four Dan Wessons, starting with a used stainless 4" 45 ACP V-Bob which is exceptionally accurate and has been dead reliable. I picked up another 4" V-Bob in 9mm, a brand new but discounted "blem" gun, and although I read the manual I ignored the complicated break in and did my own 40+ year long 1911 thing. No issues. The 9mm has proven to be as reliable and phenomenally accurate as the 45.

    So I sold off some other 1911s which were reliable and acceptably accurate to fund a new DW "A3" Govt Model style 45 but with beavertail grip safety and enhanced sights. Again following a complete teardown and inspection I did my own cleaning and lubing thing, and the A3 has performed just as well as the other two.

    Eight months ago my LGS got in a few more blem DWs and a black finished bobbed 4" in 38 Super came home with me. Same drill, blew off the DW hokey-pokey break in favor of the NZ break in, and it's been boringly accurate and reliable as the others. And they are not lubed "wet" because I use a temp stable low viscosity grease on the rails, barrel, and bushing. It does not slow a gun down in cold weather.

    My latest 1911 is a blued 5" Government Model in 38 Super I bought from ScotsGuards, and it is a fine shooter, very accurate also, but I only have 21 rounds through it, not hundreds as with the DWs.

    These five 1911s replaced eight others, including a couple SIGs, a Springfield, two Colts including my old 1970s Gold Cup which had horrible accuracy out of the box until I reworked it, and three RIAs, and the DWs and the new Colt outperform all of the departed guns.

    The slide to frame fit of the DWs and the new Colt are very tight, but the slides move nearly frictionlessly, especially on the DWs. That fit and excellent 4 lb pulls translate into fine accuracy.

    Noah

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