Live ammo VS. blanks and the law.

[gghbi]

These Honor Guards do an important job I believe. And they run on volunteers and VFW's are for the most part struggling to find people.
Esp younger folks.
They do what they can with what they got and often go out of their way to help their community and members in it .... often with little given back.
A little off track I am getting but I am not here to kick them around but I think because they are blanks .... maybe they get a little complacent in the handling of the rifles.
Often VFW's change who is in charge of the rifles due to the last person passing on.... and maybe the new guy doesn't realize , etc , etc.
But I have probably come across more rifles loaded with blanks .... than not loaded with them.
Kind of surprised me at first to be honest ... but I've come to expect it.
I think some Honor Guard Captains or Quartermasters have listened to what I've said ...but I'd like to have accurate info before I pass it along.
And so here I am...........

It is true this is an important job. It is unfortunate that the playing of Taps has been replaced by recordings because of the lack of bugle players. The time and effort put into doing this is appreciated by lot of folks out there who do not know what is involved in keeping it going.

[Mr_Gixxer]

Yeah that works well,Just Imagine needing your firearm in the event of a life or death struggle ? Not to mention a blank still has explosive capabilities so I am inclined to believe its still a loaded firearm unless disproved with a law citing and stating its not.

How can anyone cite a law that says what is legal when laws only tell you what is illegal. Is there a law that says blanks are illegal or define what constitutes ammunition in regards to title 18 chapter 61?

[Berncly]

Good deal. Always good to try to prevent people from breaking laws unknowingly, and/or hurting themselves unintentionally.

I don't know what kind of blanks are used, but the 5.56 and 7.62x39 blanks I have don't have a projectile - just powder in a crimped off casing.
I know that I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of the gas coming out of the barrel though - it's enough to propel a grenade several hundred feet, so I wouldn't consider it much safer than handling a rifle with a live round.

Bruce Lee's son got himself killed on a movie set with a blank that propelled the dislodged bullet of a previously loaded dummy round still in the chamber.

[cdi]

Blanks are extremely dangerous at the muzzle end. I have been present for 3 blanks to the face of infantrymen in training.
Luckily, no one died.

I appreciate the honor guard- but if the guards can not be bothered or are physically incapable of loading and unloading a rifle it is probably time for them to retire.

[Bang]

Rifle is loaded with blank ammunition.

Operative words, loaded, and ammunition. Very close proximity and alignment to a rifle blank discharge can inflict injury.

Flip the question to a blank-firing pistol. How would one fare carrying a loaded blank (starter's) pistol if discovered by a nice police officer?

[Mr_Gixxer]

The argument that a loaded gun is dangerous no matter what it's loaded with is a terrible argument. This was the same argument used against open carry at rally's. If a loaded gun is inherently dangerous and bad then carrying anything with a live cartridge is dangerous and bad and carrying +1 with a cartridge containing a projectile is super duper dangerous! What if the Honor Guard started using "firearms" as defined in 6102 like an AR pistol or something vs long arms? Would that suddenly be safer? What if they all carried Glocks with blanks in them to give their 21 gun salute? Would that be ok? Where is the line drawn with the question of safety? If they are handled in a safe matter what difference does it make?

The OP's question was in regards to legality of blanks in a rifle in a vehicle. If there is a specific law against that then its settled. They should then keep them unloaded and load them at the cemetery (if taking a rifle to a cemetery with the intention of loading it is even legal) or maybe transport something that IS covered by a LTCF as defined in 6102. Garand pistols?

[RockIsland]

Does the statute specify live ammunition or does it just say unloaded?

[GunLawyer001]

Does the statute specify live ammunition or does it just say unloaded?

(a) General rule.-- Except as provided in Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall carry a loaded pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, other than a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), in any vehicle. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons excepted from the requirement of a license to carry firearms under section 6106(b)(1), (2), (5) or (6) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) nor shall the provisions of this section be construed to permit persons to carry firearms in a vehicle where such conduct is prohibited by section 6106.
(b) Penalty.--A person who violates the provisions of this section commits a summary offense.




“Loaded.” A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or, in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm. If the magazine is inserted into a pouch, holder, holster or other protective device that provides for a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition, then the pouch, holder, holster or other protective device shall be deemed to be a separate compartment.

I did a quick search for blank ammo, and all the manufacturers' boxes I saw referred to "blank cartridges", never "blank ammunition". The only projectile coming out is incidental to holding the powder in before firing, and will likely be a small cardboard disk. What kills folks with blank accidents is close proximity to fast, hot gases. that's what killed Jon Eric Hexum when he put a .44 magnum blank pistol to his head.

I wouldn't carry any firearm with blanks in it in the car, mostly because there's no good reason to do so, and a few possible bad outcomes. Just unload the rifle, put the blank cartridges in a durable bag or box, and you're good to go when you get to your destination.

Would I have a decent defense to any charges if a client got hung up on the summary charge? Sure. Would every last DJ agree? No. And even if he/she did, it would cost the client too much to win. Anyone eager to throw money away unnecessarily, please send me checks for whatever amount you don't need. Whatever I buy with that money, I promise it won't be blanks.

[Sgt.K]

Whatever I buy with that money, I promise it won't be blanks.

This is why I love this guy.

[JenniferG]

Blanks are extremely dangerous at the muzzle end. I have been present for 3 blanks to the face of infantrymen in training.
Luckily, no one died.

I appreciate the honor guard- but if the guards can not be bothered or are physically incapable of loading and unloading a rifle it is probably time for them to retire.

Beat me to it. If the guard is going to fumble ammo because of physical infirmities then it's probably not safe for them to handle firearms. Even though there is no projectile, blanks are not to be handled carelessly. I ended up with some 30-06 blanks from a co-worker. I took them up to the gun club and fired them off through a Savage 110 just to get rid of them. There was plenty of muzzle blast to injure anyone standing in front of the muzzle so they are no joke.