MIM parts suck. S&W explains how and why they don't.

[Hodgie]

He said as he rocked haltingly in his chair at the Beaver County Retirement Home, ranting on about a world that no longer existed except for in his fond fading memories. j/k

Lol pretty funny.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Gunsnwater again.

[kobsw]

★Loaudy, ★ that is a pristine revolver for it's age. Nice maintenance.

CleanDean, thx and based on the S/N date my factory pinned barrel, recessed cylinder, target hammer, target trigger and target stocks model 19 is 45 years old.

I know the new guns are great guns too, but there's just something that draws me to the classics, for now.

Best regards,

Kobsw

[abner13]

The quality of S&W guns has dipped to extreme lows long before MIM parts. Can't count the number of old style hammers and triggers on 70's guns with crooked or extremely rough pivot holes , or the number of thumb spurs that simply broke off of those 'forged' hammers.

Modern machining and manufacturing methods are far superior to those of 30-40yrs ago. Hand fitting was necessary because the machines and methods used back then necessitated them. Modern CNC machinery virtually eliminates hand fitting , a necessity because craftsman with those hand skills just ain't out there. In the 'good old days' , tolerances of +/- .0005 to .001 were the gold standard and rarely attained. +/- .002~.005 were more realistic. Todays machinery , with built-in laser measuring and tool-wear compensation can hold +/- .00005 or fifty millionths of an inch.

[cdi]

This is very true.
It applies to Colt products too. 1911s from the 60's to the late 90's can be quite good or just plain awful.

[spartakis252]

Please explain why to me as it relates then the firearms world and the longevity or lack of with today's firearms and not about your plastic and sheet metal washer machine.

It's not just MIM, it's every process that has been leading cheaper, less quality firearms. Today's firearms are nowhere the fit and finish they used to be is my issue.

Just one example would be my 1974 Marlin 336 being worth just as much if not more than a new one off the shelf. Everything from the machining and bluing of the steel to the actual walnut stock is better than any modern version.

Lol pretty funny.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Gunsnwater again.

I'll get him for you.

The quality of S&W guns has dipped to extreme lows long before MIM parts. Can't count the number of old style hammers and triggers on 70's guns with crooked or extremely rough pivot holes , or the number of thumb spurs that simply broke off of those 'forged' hammers.

Modern machining and manufacturing methods are far superior to those of 30-40yrs ago. Hand fitting was necessary because the machines and methods used back then necessitated them. Modern CNC machinery virtually eliminates hand fitting , a necessity because craftsman with those hand skills just ain't out there. In the 'good old days' , tolerances of +/- .0005 to .001 were the gold standard and rarely attained. +/- .002~.005 were more realistic. Todays machinery , with built-in laser measuring and tool-wear compensation can hold +/- .00005 or fifty millionths of an inch.

If modern machining is so superior then why do all high end manufactures hand fit everything? I'm talking Holland & Holland, Purdey, Dakota, Griffen & Howe, Korth, and Wilson Combat just to name a few.

Those craftsmen that hold +/- .0005 tolerances on manual machines are still out there, but most of us are just curmudgeonly old farts....

[cdi]

That would be "old world" machining on manual machines.
I have a few Colt's from the 1930's. They were made on manual machines by lifetime craftsmen.

During the 60's, labor disputes and modernization of production accounted for a loss of those highly skilled manual operators.
I have an old Bridgeport J head bolted to the floor here. You don't so much run it as get to know it like an individual- it's like playing a musical instrument at times.

[marinville]

It's not just MIM, it's every process that has been leading cheaper, less quality firearms. Today's firearms are nowhere the fit and finish they used to be is my issue.

Just one example would be my 1974 Marlin 336 being worth just as much if not more than a new one off the shelf. Everything from the machining and bluing of the steel to the actual walnut stock is better than any modern version.



I'll get him for you.



If modern machining is so superior then why do all high end manufactures hand fit everything? I'm talking Holland & Holland, Purdey, Dakota, Griffen & Howe, Korth, and Wilson Combat just to name a few.

Those craftsmen that hold +/- .0005 tolerances on manual machines are still out there, but most of us are just curmudgeonly old farts....

Your Marlin's worth has to do with the company being bought by Remington and the shitstorm that caused, which resulted in poorly made firearms. It is not the fault of modern technology.

High end gun manufacturers can hand fit their firearms because guys with more money than brains will pay for it. Then those guys stick it in a safe and never, (seldom at best) use it, except to stare lovingly and feel some kinda way.

[Gunsnwater]

I don’t like the evidence of mim on the parts. Little circle depression. I don’t like parting lines. I don’t like frosted finish. I don’t like blue jobs that can’t take hoppies #9. I don’t like the excess beef added for frame mounted firing pins and internal locks. I don’t like the deletion of the ejector rod locking pin. I don’t like two piece barrels. I don’t like paint jobs instead of real gun finishes. I do recognize every reason and cause of the new ways. I do like and will support the manufacturing of firearms in America. I will continue to buy the new and the old and I will appreciate that it’s 2019 and we still have Smith&Wesson, Ruger, Marlin, Remington, Mossberg, Colt, Henry, NAA, Bond Arms, Kel-tec, Davis, Hi-Point, windham, and a bunch of others. It’s a fact of life that the Federal Reserve inflates our money constantly. Labor and the market place with burdensome government regulations combined with an ever devalued dollar can only support a certain level of refinement for the masses.

[abner13]

Remember , MIM parts are hard throughout. Old style S&W hammers are case-hardened , surface only. Case hardening while pretty , is only .002-.003" deep. Very easy to go through. Look at the engagement and profile surfaces of an old hammer or trigger under a magnifying glass or microscope. You'll see the reason hand fitting and polishing or ''trigger job'' is needed.

MIM parts , not so much.

[JenniferG]

Complaining about MIM parts while carrying a tupperware gun with plastic sights and striker guides. Makes sense.