Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Utah CCW while PA LTCF is being renewed

    It's time to renew my LTCF, and it just so happens I now live in Philly. Unfortunately, this means I have to deal with the annoyingly frustrating PPD Gun Permits Unit.

    If my current LTCF expires during the time while I'm waiting to receive my new one, am I still legally covered to carry a concealed firearm with my non-resident Utah CCW?

    This PSP page under the title "Are there exceptions to carrying a firearm without a Pennsylvania License to Carry?" reads:

    15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided: (i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109. (ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.
    Utah and PA do have a reciprocity agreement, and my Utah CCW is valid and was lawfully issued to me at my current PA address. The state does provide a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109 - and I'm figuring the Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth since this would be needed in order for PA to honor Utah permits.

    This suggests to me that my Utah CCW will allow me to carry in PA while my PA LTCF is renewed. Is this correct or am I looking at this the wrong way?
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Utah CCW while PA LTCF is being renewed

    Quote Originally Posted by osirhc View Post
    It's time to renew my LTCF, and it just so happens I now live in Philly. Unfortunately, this means I have to deal with the annoyingly frustrating PPD Gun Permits Unit.

    If my current LTCF expires during the time while I'm waiting to receive my new one, am I still legally covered to carry a concealed firearm with my non-resident Utah CCW?

    This PSP page under the title "Are there exceptions to carrying a firearm without a Pennsylvania License to Carry?" reads:



    Utah and PA do have a reciprocity agreement, and my Utah CCW is valid and was lawfully issued to me at my current PA address. The state does provide a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109 - and I'm figuring the Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth since this would be needed in order for PA to honor Utah permits.

    This suggests to me that my Utah CCW will allow me to carry in PA while my PA LTCF is renewed. Is this correct or am I looking at this the wrong way?
    As a PA resident; the answer is NO.
    The only permit a PA resident may use for carrying in PA is LTCF.

    However; there is a 6 month grace period for LTCF.
    If you have applied for renewing a LTCF BEFORE it expired. Then the expired LTCF is still valid while the application is being processed.

    I am not a lawyer; but that is my understanding.
    --ET

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Utah CCW while PA LTCF is being renewed

    In addition to the grace period you can also apply early if it bothers you. You don't have to wait. Just be aware that your new LTCF will be valid from the new issue date, not the current expiration date.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Utah CCW while PA LTCF is being renewed

    Quote Originally Posted by ett View Post
    As a PA resident; the answer is NO.
    The only permit a PA resident may use for carrying in PA is LTCF.

    However; there is a 6 month grace period for LTCF.
    If you have applied for renewing a LTCF BEFORE it expired. Then the expired LTCF is still valid while the application is being processed.

    I am not a lawyer; but that is my understanding.
    I disagree with the bold part. The 6-month window applies even if a renewal application is not submitted until after the original LTCF expires. Given that many counties have a turn-around time of a couple weeks or less, you could be expired for several months before submitting the renewal app, and still be covered.

    Obviously, sooner is better, but I do not believe you lose the 'grace period' if you have not submitted a renewal before expiry.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Utah CCW while PA LTCF is being renewed

    Quote Originally Posted by osirhc View Post
    am I still legally covered to carry a concealed firearm with my non-resident Utah CCW?
    Quote Originally Posted by ett View Post
    As a PA resident; the answer is NO.
    The only permit a PA resident may use for carrying in PA is LTCF.

    However; there is a 6 month grace period for LTCF.
    If you have applied for renewing a LTCF BEFORE it expired. Then the expired LTCF is still valid while the application is being processed.

    I am not a lawyer; but that is my understanding.
    You are not covered in PA. However, you may (IANAL) still be covered in other states (i.e. Delaware, Ohio, WV, etc.) by your UT. UT requires you have your home state permit to get a UT if they have reciprocity. What I am unclear on is whether the UT is still valid during the period that you are without a valid PA. That is a question for UT, or a UT certified instructor.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Utah CCW while PA LTCF is being renewed

    Quote Originally Posted by ett View Post
    As a PA resident; the answer is NO.
    The only permit a PA resident may use for carrying in PA is LTCF.

    However; there is a 6 month grace period for LTCF.
    If you have applied for renewing a LTCF BEFORE it expired. Then the expired LTCF is still valid while the application is being processed.

    I am not a lawyer; but that is my understanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    I disagree with the bold part. The 6-month window applies even if a renewal application is not submitted until after the original LTCF expires. Given that many counties have a turn-around time of a couple weeks or less, you could be expired for several months before submitting the renewal app, and still be covered.

    Obviously, sooner is better, but I do not believe you lose the 'grace period' if you have not submitted a renewal before expiry.
    I think that the statute is not really clear. The way the statute is written it could be read that you can be arrested for carrying during the 6 months but defend yourself in court with the exception. That may amount to a grace period, but I think the possibility of having to go to court should be taken into account when looking at the statute and stating that there is grace period.

    If you read the statute it mentions being arrested in the statute. This could possibly mean that you can be arrested for carrying with an expired license then use the statute as an exception for why you should not be charged with a crime.

    I’m not a lawyer and am not stating this as fact, just including what the actual statute says.

    https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs...&div=0&chpt=61
    (12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and that said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Utah CCW while PA LTCF is being renewed

    Quote Originally Posted by internet troll View Post
    I think that the statute is not really clear. The way the statute is written it could be read that you can be arrested for carrying during the 6 months but defend yourself in court with the exception. That may amount to a grace period, but I think the possibility of having to go to court should be taken into account when looking at the statute and stating that there is grace period.

    If you read the statute it mentions being arrested in the statute. This could possibly mean that you can be arrested for carrying with an expired license then use the statute as an exception for why you should not be charged with a crime.
    I agree, but it's also possible that when all parties are aware of these facts, it won't go to that length. Most DAs don't have time to prosecute a charge that they KNOW they will lose, and I can tell you from personal experience, some sheriff's will take the same approach. Mine did when I asserted the exception while CCing and entering the courthouse.

    You could tell they weren't really 'excited' about it, but the Sheriff himself has stated to me in the presence of others that he believes I know the gun laws better than he does, and when I "reminded" them of this exception, they dropped the matter of me not producing a license even though I *was* concealing.

    YMMV
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Utah CCW while PA LTCF is being renewed

    Are you a member of USSCA or US Law Shield? They have lawyers on staff that can give you good, solid information on things like this.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Utah CCW while PA LTCF is being renewed

    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
    Are you a member of USSCA or US Law Shield? They have lawyers on staff that can give you good, solid information on things like this.
    Read the fine print. I'm a member of USCCA, and they don't cover "all things gun related". Things like our walk in Abington....NOT covered had we been arrested. Their focus is the actual discharge of a firearm in a self-defense scenario.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Utah CCW while PA LTCF is being renewed

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    Read the fine print. I'm a member of USCCA, and they don't cover "all things gun related". Things like our walk in Abington....NOT covered had we been arrested. Their focus is the actual discharge of a firearm in a self-defense scenario.
    I'm not talking about the insurance, I'm talking about the knowledge on the laws but you are right, I wouldn't expect their insurance to cover that.
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