Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association

View Poll Results: Wha will be banned next?

Voters
41. You may not vote on this poll
  • Binary triggers

    18 43.90%
  • Enhanced after market triggers (Timney, Geiselle etc)

    5 12.20%
  • Pistol braces

    15 36.59%
  • Lower receivers

    3 7.32%
  • Unmarked lower receivers

    12 29.27%
  • All semi auto pistols that can be bump fired

    1 2.44%
  • All semi auto rifles that can be bump fired

    2 4.88%
  • All semi auto shotguns that can be bumpfired

    1 2.44%
  • All semi autos including 22's

    5 12.20%
  • Magazines in capacities greater than 10

    14 34.15%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days

    From an earlier thread I started back in December:

    Gunlawyer:
    "Bump stocks are not the hill to die on, but this thread certainly identifies Friends of Hillary. Or Kamala.

    My bet would be that the "reinterpretation" gets tossed by the courts, leaving it to Congress to try to ban them by changing the law. And the Dems won't be cooperating to pass any new laws if Trump is claiming credit. "

    "Even General Patton compromised, he never just went balls-to-the-walls against every enemy, he evaluated the terrain and he adapted. Be like George Patton, not like George Custer, who refused to compromise and lost everything. "
    Scruff:
    "Even Sen. Feinstein Knows the Trump Bump Stock Ban is on Thin Legal Ice"
    John 9001:
    "Based on the statements I see on here I predict a democrat landslide victory win in 2020.

    Never let the good fail because of the lack of perfect. The Republic is doomed because Trump banned stupid bumpy things.

    If you want to play GI Joe go buy a real machine gun, then you can do mag dumps and get all excited. "
    Alpacaheat:
    "I agree, Phil. Perhaps he's throwing the Dems a bone to get more important things accomplished, with the hopes and faith in his appointed judges to make sure nothing is upheld that's not in line with the Constitution.

    Now's not the time to panic and abandon him, he's our only hope at salvaging the nation and our freedoms. now is the time to stay on him to keep his promises. If Hillary was President, we'd probably all have received a knock on the door already. "
    So, you guys still feel Im blowing this out of proportion and it just effects bumpstocks?


    Forbes, March 1, 2019:

    Bump Stock Rule Puts Constitution In The Crosshairs

    Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi recently warned Republicans that if a GOP president can declare a national emergency over a wall on the southern border, the next Democrat president could declare one over gun violence. Her threat envisioned future gun control actions without Congress. But that’s already happening—and it has made a shambles of constitutional lawmaking.

    The Department of Justice (DOJ) issued the Bump Stock Type Devices Final Rule late last year. This criminal regulation retroactively bans ownership of bump stocks, an accessory that helps shooters fire semi-automatic weapons more quickly by bumping the trigger with their finger when the gun recoils.

    When the 90-day compliance window closes on March 26, lawful purchasers of some 520,000 bump stocks must have either surrendered their devices or destroyed them. Absent judicial relief, this regulation will convert all remaining owners of bump stocks into felons without action by Congress.

    But the various lawsuits pending against the rule are not about guns or gun rights. Rather, these suits ask whether DOJ may create new criminal laws without involving Congress. The Constitution’s answer is a firm no. New criminal laws must clear the twin constitutional hurdles of “bicameralism” (passage by both houses of Congress) and “presentment” (Presidential signature or veto override).

    Even a staunch gun control advocate like Senator Dianne Feinstein has recognized that Congress must be the one to act here: “Until March 2018, ATF maintained that bump stocks could not be banned through administrative action. Legislation is necessary to ensure a ban is implemented and regulations are not tied up in court.” Likewise, the Obama Administration faced tremendous pressure from allies to ban bump stocks via regulation but decided that it could not lawfully do so unilaterally. A pen and a phone would not suffice for this.

    Nevertheless, current policymakers have defined two allegedly ambiguous terms in the 1934 National Firearms Act in order to ban bump stocks. Despite 80+ years of clarity and dozens of federal cases deeming the statute unambiguous, DOJ is trying to create a loophole in the definition of “machinegun” to fit bump stocks into it. Usually it’s criminal defendants who try such stunts to exempt their machineguns from the ban. This time it’s DOJ claiming ambiguity—and eroding respect for the rule of law.

    Worse yet, in this week’s case out of the federal district court in D.C., the judge invoked the Chevron doctrine in deferring to DOJ’s definition of the terms “single function of the trigger” and “automatically.” DOJ’s new definitions are awkward at best, but Chevron poses the more nettlesome problem. This embarrassing precedent tells federal judges to defer to the executive branch’s statutory interpretation whenever the judge decides that a statute is ambiguous and the agency’s interpretation is reasonable. There is not room here for a complete takedown of Chevron, so suffice it to say that the D.C. plaintiffs did not enjoy due process of law when their judge deferred to the other party in the case rather than providing her independent judgment.

    Besides which, the Chevron doctrine should not even come into play where a criminal statute is concerned. The Rule of Lenity dictates construing ambiguity in a criminal statute in favor of defendants. And make no mistake; there will be defendants. DOJ has conceded in court that it will use these same definitions to go after any bump stock owners who hold onto their devices.

    Therein lies a future injustice. It is practically certain that some number of lawful purchasers will not get the word that bump stocks were banned. They will show up at a gun range to fire one, be seen there by an ATF agent or other law enforcement official and get arrested. The penalty is up to 10 years in prison and a permanent ban on gun ownership. These innocent owners will have no reason to have anticipated a ban—at least not a retroactive one. When Congress banned machineguns themselves in 1986, it did not do so retroactively.

    This fact raises two further questions. First, how can a statute that did not ban anything retroactively later be construed to authorize banning bump stocks retroactively? It cannot, at least not when interpreted reasonably. Perhaps the greatest indignity to the Constitution in these cases is the idea that a statute that quite deliberately did not ban machineguns retroactively can be rewritten later by a federal agency to ban bump stocks retroactively. DOJ—and the D.C. district court—rely on the fiction that the statute is ambiguous when it is just silent.

    Second, were Congress to ban bump stocks, would it do so retroactively and with the same penalty structure as owning an actual machinegun? History says no, especially since Congress has tried and failed to ban bump stocks several times—and those bills were rarely retroactive.

    But DOJ’s loopholing requires it to use the same penalty structure because DOJ knows that courts will not let it get away with altering the length of sentences. DOJ often assures that prosecutorial discretion will prevent injustice. Somehow trust in that is hard to muster when the Department is already mangling the Constitution to rewrite the statute.

    Congress is generally not willing to turn law-abiding citizens into felons, because Congress has to face voters. Administrative agencies like ATF and DOJ face no voters and show no such qualms. Bump stock owners risk prison as a result. Everyone else risks the terrifying consequences of allowing DOJ to write criminal laws without Congress. After all, if DOJ can create the bump stock rule, what stops it from bypassing Congress to create criminal laws on other subjects?

    Barrels of ink have been spilled criticizing the administration’s national emergency declaration to transfer some funds for building a wall on the southern border. The bump stock ban sets a far worse precedent, yet comparatively little alarm has been raised. No matter one’s feelings about gun control policy, everyone should oppose rapid-fire destruction of constitutional lawmaking. Our liberty is in jeopardy.

    Washington Post Feb 26, 2019:

    Bump-stock ban enacted by Trump administration can stand, federal judge rules

    A federal judge in Washington ruled late Monday that the Trump administration’s ban on rapid-fire rifle attachments known as bump stocks can move forward, stymieing efforts by gun-rights groups that sought to block the new policy.

    In a 64-page decision, U.S. District Judge Dabney L. Friedrich found that the Firearms Policy Coalition and other groups did not put forth any convincing legal arguments in favor of stopping the Trump administration from carrying out the ban, which targets a device used in the 2017 Las Vegas massacre, the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

    Friedrich, a 2017 appointee of President Trump to the District of Columbia, ruled it was “reasonable” of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to conclude that a bump-stock, which uses the recoil energy from a rifle to automatically fire the next round, performs the same function as a machine gun and should therefore be banned just like machine guns under federal law.
    GOA March 19, 2019:
    OA Fighting Gun Control Attacks at Home and from Abroad

    This is an important update on some of the important battles that Gun Owners of America is fighting right now.

    We are still awaiting a decision on GOA’s court case involving bump stocks.

    We had hoped to get a decision by last week. But since we have not, GOA today filed an emergency petition and motion in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit.

    In it, we are asking the Court of Appeals to order the district court to halt ATF’s regulation until the court issues its decision on our pending motion.

    Also, we separately asked the Court of Appeals to stay the regulation until any appeal is heard — a stay that could hopefully last weeks or months while we make our case as to why the ATF ban is illegal.

    "Tolerance is the lube that helps slip the dildo of dysfunction into the ass of a civilized society." Plato
    Last edited by spacemanvic; March 20th, 2019 at 02:27 AM.
    Hold the Line...

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days

    Quote Originally Posted by spacemanvic View Post
    Despite your sig line, you sure do like to tuck and run.
    Wtf are you going on about?
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    μολ ν λαβέ
    What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days

    There's no box for I don't give a fuck I'm not turning in shit.
    Any vote for a third party is a vote for a Democrat. You are the enemy.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoder View Post
    There's no box for I don't give a fuck I'm not turning in shit.
    I second this, what are these bumpstops y'all referring to

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days

    Will not comply.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days

    I think this is in the right forum. It is a national issue and at this point, who cares what antis think. There are times where i understand that discretion is the better part of valor, but this is not one of those times. This is a serious breach of law, justice, property rights and the trust many of us had in Trump... imo... and the louder, more in the face of the issue we are the better.

    Don't make this easy on politicians, don't hide our disdain...... the harder we make this the harder it is for them to make the next attack on the 2nd. They should know people will not comply with an unjust decision that arbitrarily deprives people of their property.

    I do not own one nor did I want one until this came about. But I do stand with those who have bump stocks that are basically being told to destroy something that they legally bought. People who are unhappy with this should not have to hide their disdain in the wasteland..... er I mean lounge.
    Last edited by internet troll; March 20th, 2019 at 08:18 AM.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days

    Well if the deadline is in six days all the people must have turned them in by now.
    How many did they get,,,, three, five, ten, five hundred and twenty thousand?

    You would think the fake news would update all their brainwashed libtard listeners every day on how many were turned in so far.
    ,

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer View Post
    Wtf are you going on about?
    I plead the flu Gix for my misunderstanding. Sorry
    Hold the Line...

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days

    Quote Originally Posted by spacemanvic View Post
    I plead the flu. Never mind.
    It's all good lol
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    μολ ν λαβέ
    What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days

    Quote Originally Posted by internet troll View Post
    I think this is in the right forum. It is a national issue and at this point, who cares what antis think. There are times where i understand that discretion is the better part of valor, but this is not one of those times. This is a serious breach of law, justice, property rights and the trust many of us had in Trump... imo... and the louder, more in the face of the issue we are the better.

    Don't make this easy on politicians, don't hide our disdain...... the harder we make this the harder it is for them to make the next attack on the 2nd. They should know people will not comply with an unjust decision that arbitrarily deprives people of their property.

    I do not own one nor did I want one until this came about. But I do stand with those who have bump stocks that are basically being told to destroy something that they legally bought. People who are unhappy with this should not have to hide their disdain in the wasteland..... er I mean lounge.
    And that is quite different than a poll on what to ban next. Show me the constructive side not the defeatist. Wallowing is not why I come here.
    The Gun is the Badge of a Free Man

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