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Thread: DAO Pistol

  1. #41
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    Default Re: DAO Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by marinville View Post
    Just gonna throw this out there: I am of the mind that a carry pistol should NOT have a manual safety. However, if your carry pistol does have a safety, you should practice using it. If you practice as if the safety didn't exist, and it becomes inadvertently engaged, you are going to be shitting your pants in a stressful situation if you try to pull the trigger and you can't. Just my opinion. Something to think about, maybe.
    I had seen that example given as a reason NOT to carry it with the safety off - "What if you "bump" the safety and engave it without realizing it?"

    Your point is a valid one, but anyone who has ever manipulated the safety on a Shield knows that's even less likely than needing to use your gun in self defense in the first place. I mean, I get the concept - it's just not a valid concern in my opinion, after having worked the safety - it's not going anywhere without deliberate manipulation.


    I don't care what someone carries - safety - no safety - no round chambered, with a bicycle lock through the trigger guard for super-duper safety... whatever.
    I've just always carried DAO pistols, so I'm not about to change things up by carrying anything with a manual safety/safety on.
    I know how my brain works - It's unlikely I'd remember to flick a safety off before pressing the trigger.
    It's one reason I'll probably never carry the 1911 I bought.
    I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!

  2. #42
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    Default Re: DAO Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by TooBigToFit View Post
    Look into a handgun with HK LEM, especially in the HK45 and USP series.
    I second the LEM, but will say it is best for me in my P2000, P2000SK, P30L and HK45c. USP series just didn't do it for me.

    Best hammer carry option out there, IMO.
    "A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." ― Edward R. Murrow

  3. #43
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    Default Re: DAO Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by djeuch View Post
    I second the LEM, but will say it is best for me in my P2000, P2000SK, P30L and HK45c. USP series just didn't do it for me.

    Best hammer carry option out there, IMO.
    Main reason why I said HK45 and USP series is they both have (almost) the same trigger mechanisms. HK changed enough going from the USP to the P2000 and P30 that the triggers feel significantly different, both in LEM and DA/SA models. The break got mushier, and the reset significantly longer. I personally prefer the HK USP (and Mk23) of all of HK's hammer fired guns, mainly because of the trigger and checkering, but also slide release size and location. I can see why someone would prefer otherwise though.

    To the OP, if you don't know what HK LEM is, it's essentially a precocked DAO, and feels like a two stage trigger for handguns. The slide moving to the rear cocks the hammer spring, but the hammer always rests in the forward position, Pulling the trigger will move the hammer, but the trigger is very light (probably ounces), until you hit a wall. The gun basically feels like shooting a single action gun in terms of trigger break and reset, except the first shot has a long but light DA length takeup. That long light takeup was designed as both a drop safety (against inertial firing), and as a way to prevent officers from accidentally bumping the trigger under stress (hence, the name Law Enforcement Modification). There is a backup true DA mode that feels like an actual DA hammer fired gun, but you'll only ever feel this if the gun hits a primer without detonating it.

    HK LEM is basically the best of the striker (no manual safety, consistent trigger pull) and the best of the DA hammer (no trigger safety, double strike capability, ability to thumb hammer when holstering).

  4. #44
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    Default Re: DAO Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by TooBigToFit View Post
    Main reason why I said HK45 and USP series is they both have (almost) the same trigger mechanisms. HK changed enough going from the USP to the P2000 and P30 that the triggers feel significantly different, both in LEM and DA/SA models. The break got mushier, and the reset significantly longer. I personally prefer the HK USP (and Mk23) of all of HK's hammer fired guns, mainly because of the trigger and checkering, but also slide release size and location. I can see why someone would prefer otherwise though.

    To the OP, if you don't know what HK LEM is, it's essentially a precocked DAO, and feels like a two stage trigger for handguns. The slide moving to the rear cocks the hammer spring, but the hammer always rests in the forward position, Pulling the trigger will move the hammer, but the trigger is very light (probably ounces), until you hit a wall. The gun basically feels like shooting a single action gun in terms of trigger break and reset, except the first shot has a long but light DA length takeup. That long light takeup was designed as both a drop safety (against inertial firing), and as a way to prevent officers from accidentally bumping the trigger under stress (hence, the name Law Enforcement Modification). There is a backup true DA mode that feels like an actual DA hammer fired gun, but you'll only ever feel this if the gun hits a primer without detonating it.

    HK LEM is basically the best of the striker (no manual safety, consistent trigger pull) and the best of the DA hammer (no trigger safety, double strike capability, ability to thumb hammer when holstering).
    Great explanation. Out of all of the ways I've heard LEM explained- this makes the most sense, thanks.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: DAO Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by TooBigToFit View Post
    Main reason why I said HK45 and USP series is they both have (almost) the same trigger mechanisms. HK changed enough going from the USP to the P2000 and P30 that the triggers feel significantly different, both in LEM and DA/SA models. The break got mushier, and the reset significantly longer. I personally prefer the HK USP (and Mk23) of all of HK's hammer fired guns, mainly because of the trigger and checkering, but also slide release size and location. I can see why someone would prefer otherwise though.

    [good explanation of LEM omitted]
    I had a USP full-size in SA/DA and honestly didn't like it enough, I ended up selling it just within the last 2 weeks. Now, my Mark 23 out of the box is simply amazing, but the USP, although a nice gun by any other standard, just didn't measure up to the rest of my HK stable (P2000, P2000SK, P30L, 45c, VP9, Mark 23). It was the worst in that line-up for me, so off it went! The first 4 listed are "light" LEM.

    Now to be fair, my 45c has had trigger work by Lazy Wolf Guns and, just WOW... it's amazing. Easy LEM pull, predictable short break, and very short reset. It's expensive, but my plans are to eventually send in all my LEM pistols for the same treatment.
    "A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." ― Edward R. Murrow

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