Creepy Situation in the Woods

[Berncly]

FIFY

That is incorrect.
A police officer can routinely hold people at gunpoint if the situation deems it necessary, even if the suspects are not acting overtly threatening.
Pulling over a car of suspected violent criminals would be an example of that, where they are managed at gunpoint even with no overt violence towards the officer.
Processing an active shooter situation would again involve moving nonviolent people at gunpoint until they are cleared.

[Walleye Hunter]

OK, my friend CCing and he comes across one or more people who look menacing to him but are not brandishing arms. What makes them menacing is subjective but the pistol he is carrying is not. He's worried that they might assault him and more worried that they'll take his gun from him and shoot him with it. What is he to do?

[Berncly]

OK, my friend CCing and he comes across one or more people who look menacing to him but are not brandishing arms. What makes them menacing is subjective but the pistol he is carrying is not. He's worried that they might assault him and more worried that they'll take his gun from him and shoot him with it. What is he to do?

Avoid them.
Avoid anything that looks like a potential confrontation when carrying.
If they pursue, then you know they may be a true threat.

[Walleye Hunter]

Avoid them.
Avoid anything that looks like a potential confrontation when carrying.
If they pursue, then you know they may be a true threat.

So if he's hiking a trail and come across them he should turn around and go home?

[Berncly]

So if he's hiking a trail and come across them he should turn around and go home?

He should do anything reasonable to avoid them, go around them, whatever makes sense.
Just walking up to them is dumb carry or no carry.
If I think someone is truly a threat to me, the last thing I'm going to do is walk up to them and make myself vulnerable.
If I'm thinking I may need to defend myself I want distance between me and the threat.

[jthrelf]

I walk the dog there when it's not too muddy. Ive never seen anything creepy.

Mostly see just kids, couples, and milfs jogging in yoga pants.

The Orange Trail will be muddy until at least August. It's a mess right now and the only reason I even attempted it was because of the snow cover. Shame because the East loop is an excellent quick mountain bike trail to lap and time yourself.

That is exactly it. You're presentation to the public by your appearance is the number one impression you give to people before saying a word. People need to understand that if you look like a biker, or have unkempt look with dirty clothing or a thug with the flat brimmed ball cap and gold chains you are going to draw negative attention no matter how cool you think you look.

In this instance I would have kept going but I would have gotten a good description memorized of the two so if something were to happen I'd be able to give a description of the two to police. Getting involved with a domestic dispute is nothing but trouble unless the woman looks like she's going to lose her life then I'd intervene and I mean if he had a weapon like a knife or axe or gun and was about ready to use the weapon on her.

Yup got a good look at them just in case. And it wasn't all due to the guy's outward look that alarmed me, it was the totality of the situation. 99% of people on a trail if you say hello or smile you will get the same positive response back. This wasn't one of those times.

Personally, if I had a spidey sense moment I would write down plates or take a pic. I'd be mad at myself if a body turned up later tied to the park. Of couse, I would do it surreptitiously.

By the way, letting the actors aware you see them and made note of them can dissuade people with criminal intent. Kudos for that.

Yes, certainly did snap a picture of the cars/plates.

[giant_g2]

Putting a hand on a holstered gun is not the same as drawing it and/or pointing it at someone.
There is also little comparison between a police officer performing his duty and an average Joe defending himself.
The police hold people at gunpoint routinely even without any overt threat, the average Joe can't do that and expect the same treatment by the courts.
Not saying it's right, just saying that's the way it is.

While drawing or pointing is not the same as placing your hand on the weapon, I assume any three of those actions would still be considered a threat with a weapon (wether it's justified or not is another question), at least for us second class citizens. And the contradiction in standards for what is justified was what I was trying to emphasize.

[Bang]

Maybe the real difference is a civilian has the choice to avoid, whereas the LE is compelled to confront. A car full of known baddies is hardly a latent threat.

[Gun]

OK, my friend CCing and he comes across one or more people who look menacing to him but are not brandishing arms. What makes them menacing is subjective but the pistol he is carrying is not. He's worried that they might assault him and more worried that they'll take his gun from him and shoot him with it. What is he to do?

He needs to get training, to learn how to fight to keep his gun, and if necessary, deploy his gun.

It is fairly easy to avoid those that who look menacing. Problem is, what happens if he is ambushed, sucker punched.

[giant_g2]

Maybe the real difference is a civilian has the choice to avoid, whereas the LE is compelled to confront. A car full of known baddies is hardly a latent threat.

LE is not under any legal obligation to protect a member of the public nor are they legally obligated to enforce the law. Hence why people get off with unofficial warnings or 'a talking to' instead of a summons, even when they have clearly broken the law. Also, as citizens it is our duty to uphold the law, and arrest powers for felonies committed in our presence are granted. I forget who said it, but officers are merely citizens who's full attention is given to the same duties which a portion of all citizens' attention should be given. This was from the 1700s I believe and stated the way a democracy is supposed to work, not how it actually functions today. Due to the legal environment I wouldn't recommend using these powers.

That reaction is warranted if the car is actually full of bad guys. Hand on weapon for a plate that come back clean is still common. How would a civilian be treated for placing their hand on their weapon with no indication of a threat? Also, how many stories are there on here about OCers staring down a barrel when no crime has been committed, they are non-aggressive, conduct themselves professionally, and in many cases no complaint has been called in? Clearly if LE followed the same use of force guidlines as civilians then pointing a firearm at someone who has committed no crime would be a threat with a weapon. Of course whether it's right or wrong, the officer has no legal culpability for their actions in performance of their duty.