Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #71
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Southwest, Pennsylvania
    (Washington County)
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    Default Re: I almost just pulled my gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by longcall911 View Post
    I'm in no mood to argue, but you did say "Given that, I fail to see how my characterization is incorrect."

    You can disagree with my view, obviously. I can tell you that I have spoken with at least a dozen lawmakers and a couple of lawyers on this basic issue. The typical interpretation is that we have a duty to retreat (unless in home, vehicle or place of business). If a person does not and is prosecuted, he would need to prove to a jury that he believed he could not retreat to safety. If it has already gone so far as a trial, I say, "good luck proving that retreat was impossible". The test will likely be whether a 'reasonable person' would have been able to retreat and was there any attempt at all.

    As a result, the best way to avoid a legal problem is to "run and hide under your desk". That is what the state is basically saying we should do as a first option. That may not save your life, but that is what the state wants us to do. I despise that position, but it is in effect what the law says, as I interpret it.

    Again, no problem if you disagree....

    IANAL
    See, again this is where I can't agree that your interpretation is more accurate. You have no duty to prove that retreat was impossible. It is more accurate to say that you must prove you could not have retreated with complete safety. You do not have the duty to attempt a retreat first, if the only options available for doing so would be potentially hazardous. That is my interpretation, based on the language of the law.
    Last edited by marinville; February 5th, 2019 at 02:57 PM.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: I almost just pulled my gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by longcall911 View Post
    If a person does not and is prosecuted, he would need to prove to a jury that he believed he could not retreat to safety.
    He would need to prove that he could not safely retreat. More specifically, that he did not know so, at the time.

    EDIT TO ADD: The more I think about this, I believe that even what I have stated above here would be better stated as "the prosecutor must prove that you knew, at the time, that you could have retreated in complete safety." The burden of proof lies on the prosecution, as a person is to be presumed innocent.

    As you can hopefully tell, this is a far cry from claiming that one must be able to prove that retreat was impossible.
    Last edited by marinville; February 5th, 2019 at 06:26 PM.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Levittown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: I almost just pulled my gun...

    Requiring display of deadly weapon is poor legislation. There are plenty of records of people being killed by a single punch.
    Legislating to prevent people's acts is fantasy

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    countryside, Pennsylvania
    (Carbon County)
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    Default Re: I almost just pulled my gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgie View Post
    Pretty much got it all covered here.

    Someone just told me to "fuck off" here but unfortunately decided to delete it. Lucky for me it still came across in my email notification at 11:04 pm and gave me a good laugh before bed.
    actually I was going to tell you to fuck off because of the insensitive term you used to describe someone (me) of, i assume, sub standard intelligence. I happen to have a sister who you would probably deem retarded. So have a laugh before bed over that...

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Southwest, Pennsylvania
    (Washington County)
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    Default Re: I almost just pulled my gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.D. View Post
    actually I was going to tell you to fuck off because of the insensitive term you used to describe someone (me) of, i assume, sub standard intelligence. I happen to have a sister who you would probably deem retarded. So have a laugh before bed over that...
    I very strongly doubt anyone here has any ill will towards your sister, although she happens to have a brother who's intelligence I have wondered about here lately.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    On top of a hill, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: I almost just pulled my gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.D. View Post
    actually I was going to tell you to fuck off because of the insensitive term you used to describe someone (me) of, i assume, sub standard intelligence. I happen to have a sister who you would probably deem retarded. So have a laugh before bed over that...
    1st I apologize if I offended you due to your sister. I have two cousins who are both special needs, one of which is severe who I have worked with closely since my aunt, his mother passed several years back without leaving any long term care for him.

    I donít believe in P.C. bull shit I use the word retard or retarded like I use the word fag when my brother or close friend does something stupid. My brothers step son is gay and I love him, but I still use the word fag and so does my brother.

    I donít assume to know everyoneís personal life nor do I assume anyone to know mine unless I share it. Iím mixed race and have heard more what I consider racist shit here and other places all my life.

    I grew a thicker skin and donít take life personal.

    Again my apologies.
    Last edited by Hodgie; February 5th, 2019 at 06:36 PM.

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    countryside, Pennsylvania
    (Carbon County)
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    Default Re: I almost just pulled my gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgie View Post
    1st I apologize if I offended you due to your sister. I have two cousins who are both special needs, one of which is severe who I have worked with closely since my aunt, his mother passed several years back without leaving any long term care for him.

    I don’t believe in P.C. bull shit I use the word retard or retarded like I use the word fag when my brother or close friend does something stupid. My brothers step son is gay and I love him, but I still use the word fag and so does my brother.

    I don’t assume to know everyone’s personal life nor do I assume anyone to know mine unless I share it. I’m mixed race and have heard more what I consider racist shit here and other places all my life.

    I grew a thicker skin and don’t take life personal.

    Again my apologies.
    I accept without any reservations, thank you. I just hear that stuff alot and it bothers me sometimes that we still use it fairly casually.

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    West Side of river from Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Re: I almost just pulled my gun...

    Read two pages.... Skipped to end..... I would have done same regardless of car running.

    Suddenly pop from the shadows at night in my driveway and approach me asking for ride(to a casino no less) and my natural reaction would be hand on grip. If yours isn't, then you just gave up valuable time.

    I have never felt that casually putting my hand on the grip is too far. It serves as a hand rest 99.9% of the time for me anyway. Rather, t's a polite way of saying "don't f@#k with me".
    With great power comes great responsibility....

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