LEO encounter at Home Depot in Allentown

**PennsyPlinker** · October 7th, 2008, 09:06 AM

I just got off the phone with an assistant manager who identified herself as Julie. I asked her if she was familiar with the incident, and she said, "in passing". I told her that it had been reported that the gentleman carrying his firearm was asked to leave it outside the store if he wanted to continue shopping. She said that was not the case. I asked her to explain to me (very politely of course) what exactly the case was. I gave her my full name, Penns E. Plinker (actually, I gave her my real name) and told her truthfully that I had spent thousands of dollars in their store over the past nine years. I went on to say that I was a gun owner who carried his gun openly, had carried in the store numerous times in the past, and wanted to know if I was no longer welcome with my gun on my hip.

At this point she got very formal on me and told me I would have to discuss the matter with Mr. Lutz, who is the store manager himself, and who is currently in a meeting. I pressed the point a little, asking her if I would be asked to leave if I showed up with my gun on my hip to speak with him, and she refused to answer again, stating that I would have to talk to Mr. Lutz. She told me I should call back after lunch.

During the course of our conversation, she told me she was from Texas, and everyone had a gun down there. She went on to say that she was not familiar with the gun laws here in Pennsylvania. I told her that in some ways they were better here than in Texas, citing open carry. I went on to say that I needed to know what the position of the manager was, as I could be accused of trespassing if I showed up with my gun and I wasn't allowed. This was when she went stiff and formal and told me I would have to talk to the man himself. More to come when I get it...

**lprgcFrank** · October 7th, 2008, 09:19 AM

Truecrimson - you handled it well
I would have asked for my gun back as soon as they checked your license.

**Dredly** · October 7th, 2008, 09:27 AM

Didn't you have an extra 100.00 in that wallet before the officer took it from you? Aren't you missing your American Express card now? Officers are NOT supposed to touch your wallet for this exact reason.

I don't see how that off duty officer has the right or privilege to demand that you hand over your wallet so he can rifle through it looking for whatever he wants. You already provided him with ID. If he wants to know if you have a LTCF (even though you don't need to show it to him) he could have called it in.

What gives an Off-Duty officer the right to disarm a legally armed citizen for no reason what so ever? That "for officers safety" is bullshit as he isn't in any danger and he has no legal reason to be speaking with you.

File a complaint

**Tootie** · October 7th, 2008, 09:28 AM

Even though the episode ended well I have a big problem with them searching through your wallet. A man's wallet is like a woman's purse and as far as I know they need either probable cause or a warrant. I also disagree with them making you raise your arms and turn around so they could disarm you. That was a dangerous act and put you and others at risk. I think my biggest problem is that this was an off duty officer, was he in uniform? If not did he show you ID to make sure he was what he was stating he was? Anyone can say they are a cop, I just hope he proved it to you before you allowed him to take your personal property.

**archon** · October 7th, 2008, 09:30 AM

Nothing beats getting seized by a government official while trying to conduct your day to day business.

If the situation unfolded substantially similar to how you described it, it was an illegal seizure. The officer clearly did not have RAS to conduct any sort of detention and you did not consent to being detained. Furthermore, since you hadn't commited a crime and weren't in the process of commiting a crime the Terry search was completely inappropriate and unconstitutional.

You have really have two remedies available 1) sue him and Allentown in federal court 2) file a complaint against the officer. At a minimum you should do #2 because it is an important step for two reasons. First, you up the ante for officers who want to swing their weight around and secondly you are building evidence that will strip them of qualified immunity if incidents like this continue to occur.

Furthermore, if Allentown has an ordinance against OC lets get someone up there to sue them. I'll be more than happy to help with a complaint and a brief.

**BerksCountyDave** · October 7th, 2008, 09:42 AM

I prefer Lowe's anyway. Everything is easier to find and I've OC'ed there countless time with no problems. The Home Depot around here is a dump.

**Philbert** · October 7th, 2008, 09:44 AM

"A man's wallet is a personal thing. It's like money-filled underwear."

**Robert Kayland** · October 7th, 2008, 10:00 AM

Well, it's expected that such encounters might make one bristle, and it's tough to maintain composure and even, yes, swallow one's pride during such a violation of personal rights...

But...

I'd like to think that, by the OP keeping his cool and being compliant, he may have saved a bunch of us in the future from having to go through this sort of thing, leastwise by the officers involved.

Hence, rep!

/Rep on the Hank Hill reference as well!

**The Unknown 1087** · October 7th, 2008, 12:06 PM

I'm curious was he even allowed to be in uniform since he was off duty?

As soon as he said he was off duty, couldn't the conversation end there directly?