Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #41
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    Default Re: how do we fix the nra ?

    Quote Originally Posted by unclejumbo View Post
    The fact that we still have semi-autos after some of the most horrific mass shootings imaginable is a good indicator of the influence of the NRA. It's amazing to me that some of you don't see that. This "what have you done for me lately" level of rhetoric is absurd. There is no point in the NRA wasting money where they absolutely can't succeed. Looking at CA, NJ, NY and the other states that have been taken over by progressives.

    As to enhanced PA preemption, our legislators screwed that up royally. Either by design or supreme incompetence, we don't have it. And as soon as Wolf took the reigns, we weren't going to get it. Why should the NRA lobby for legislation knowing it will be vetoed?

    To give some clarity, the NRA works closely with legislators. They attempt to stop bad law before it happens. That's a more effective strategy than filing a suit to have it overturned. (See the ACA) They work to inform legislators and the POTUS about the negatives of legislation when everybody feels good about this great new idea. Whether it's including the no-fly list in background checks or shouting that red-flag laws must include due process.

    I do believe the NRA has done a very poor job of money management and that needs to be addressed. It would appear they may have gotten used to the money rolling in and treated themselves to luxuries that weren't warranted.

    Without pointing the finger at anyone, it's clear from this and other threads that some of you have no idea how our government actually operates. I encourage everyone to take the time to read about the ins and outs of the legislative process, how the sausage gets made if you will. How our legislators throw legislation out there as red meat for certain groups, knowing it will go nowhere. How procedural votes are used to kill legislation. How legislators will bargain with one another to vote "yes" on something they oppose to give them cover in their district.

    The way the NRA is most effective, beyond reminding legislators that are casually pro-gun about the negatives of certain legislation, is the big stick they carry. Many politicians have wailed about the NRA being the cause for their defeat. Between the membership and the non-members that follow the NRA's lead, many politicians know that crossing them is the end of their career. The more the NRA is weakened, the smaller that sticks becomes.

    No doubt, they've made some missteps. But they are also the victim of some very well done hit pieces by the antis. When I see pro-2A folks using sources like Mother Jones, Vox, Rolling Stone and The Daily Beast to attack the NRA, I have to wonder if they're actually pro-2A or are they just that stupid to carry the water for their enemies. Add to that, the "no compromise" folks that have a soapbox and not the slightest idea how the process works and you have a recipe for some crushing defeats in regards to gun laws.

    You took the words out of my mouth.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: how do we fix the nra ?

    Quote Originally Posted by unclejumbo View Post
    The fact that we still have semi-autos after some of the most horrific mass shootings imaginable is a good indicator of the influence of the NRA. It's amazing to me that some of you don't see that. This "what have you done for me lately" level of rhetoric is absurd. There is no point in the NRA wasting money where they absolutely can't succeed. Looking at CA, NJ, NY and the other states that have been taken over by progressives.
    And, yet despite the above average IQ's on here, your post will be ridiculed, overlooked, or not read since it is more than 50 words. The naysayers will continue to badmouth the NRA without the slightness hint of a better idea.

    I've been supporting and holding the NRA's "corporate" feet to the fire before most members here were the proverbial gleam in their daddy's eyes. They have always been the smartest and best solution to stop the infringement of our Second Amendment Rights. If you have a better solution, then let them know about it. They do listen.

    "We have met the enemy and he is us."

  3. #43
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    Default Re: how do we fix the nra ?

    I agree that we're better off than we would be without them and that they're good at holding the line. I suppose what I dislike is that they've been doing too much preaching to the choir and feeding fear instead of recapturing cultural ground and taking back the anti gun areas. Hard? Of course it is, but that's why they have a multimillion dollar PR and advertising company on the payroll. Instead of using that to sell pickles, expensive gold plated limited edition pistols, wine subscriptions, hype videos, etc, they should be getting us back CT, NJ, NY, etc. Instead of writing off the enemy's gains we should be taking them back. Employ advertising, psychology, etc -- everything the enemy does.

    Instead of taking it as a given that large cities will be anti gun, they need to actually do their job and figure out how to turn them pro gun. Put communications in magazines that aren't gun magazines. Get on TV channels that aren't Outdoor Channel and Sportsmans-- get where people who aren't us are. The "why spend money where we're losing" mentality is exactly what has produced the result in those areas, along with the mentality of the people in those areas of selling raffle tickets and attending once a year rallies instead of reaching out to new neighbors, taking them to the range, etc. instead of tunneling in to their 5 best friends and family. I'm wondering of course if this is a subset of northeastern mentality in general, though, the attitude of "I have my 5 best friends and my family--if you're not them then f*** you." I've run into that a lot in PA and NY. It isn't healthy and it explains a lot of what goes wrong.
    Last edited by Yellowfin; January 19th, 2019 at 12:31 PM.
    "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws--that's insane!" -- Penn Jillette

    "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." -- Ted Nugent

  4. #44
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    Default Re: how do we fix the nra ?

    I've been annoyed with the NRA for 34 years. That's the exactly the same amount of time that I've been a member.

    Lil' Wayne has been at the helm the whole time. He really pissed me off when he made the news show circuit, saying that the ATF "needs to do their job!" regarding the classification of plastic bumpy toys. I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that they had done just that on multiple occasions.

    Inexcusable.

    The NRA is like every other political organization today. They tend to become the mission itself, instead of it being what they claim they to believe in. Most only believe in money, power, and influence. I think the NRA could use a good swamp draining like the rest of them.

    Do I think that they are intentionally letting anti gun legislation pass, in order to increase their donations and membership base? I hope to God not. I do know that this tactic is normal operating procedure for both political parties, and most of the pundits in DC.

    I'm also pretty sure they're not playing 3D chess. If they are, they're not very good at it. The NFA and GCA were practically written and endorsed by them. The two largest infringements on the the American people's right to keep and bear arms.

    Those brilliant pieces of legislative compromise, more closely mirror the Warsaw Ghetto proclamation, than the wishes of our founders, guaranteed by the US Constitution.

    Would we as gun owners be worse off without them? I have no doubt that we would. It neither makes me blindly follow them, or exempts them from any criticism. "It could be worse." isn't exactly the most effective mission statement, and it's an even less effective battle cry.

    Having said all this,

    I am still a member.

    I am not a Mom's need action super secret operative.

    I do not want them to crash and burn.

    I don't have a replacement for them, if and when they do.

    Sacrificing bumpy sticks for nothing in return is not compromise, it's capitulation.

    I've always supported their efforts and accomplishments in firearms education, for all levels of shooters.

    If Ted Nugent really wanted 10K to go to the Yinzburg rally, then F him!

    I am not a Russian troll.



    I believe their leadership could use some new blood and perspective. A mere dilution of the swamp fudds influence would have a positive effect.

    All NRA members (and everyone else) are entitled to their opinions. Criticizing the NRA's decisions and tactics that you don't agree with, does not ammount to treason, any more than it does to do the same with President Trump or The Grand Old Party.

    We the people get the leadership we deserve. I don't exempt myself from this statement. Most of us could, and need to do more, and become more involved in the process.

    Political power and influence is important, what you do with it is even more so.

    Uncle Ben was right.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: how do we fix the nra ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RockIsland View Post
    I've been annoyed with the NRA for 34 years. That's the exactly the same amount of time that I've been a member.

    Lil' Wayne has been at the helm the whole time. He really pissed me off when he made the news show circuit, saying that the ATF "needs to do their job!" regarding the classification of plastic bumpy toys. I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that they had done just that on multiple occasions.

    Inexcusable.

    The NRA is like every other political organization today. They tend to become the mission itself, instead of it being what they claim they to believe in. Most only believe in money, power, and influence. I think the NRA could use a good swamp draining like the rest of them.

    Do I think that they are intentionally letting anti gun legislation pass, in order to increase their donations and membership base? I hope to God not. I do know that this tactic is normal operating procedure for both political parties, and most of the pundits in DC.

    I'm also pretty sure they're not playing 3D chess. If they are, they're not very good at it. The NFA and GCA were practically written and endorsed by them. The two largest infringements on the the American people's right to keep and bear arms.

    Those brilliant pieces of legislative compromise, more closely mirror the Warsaw Ghetto proclamation, than the wishes of our founders, guaranteed by the US Constitution.

    Would we as gun owners be worse off without them? I have no doubt that we would. It neither makes me blindly follow them, or exempts them from any criticism. "It could be worse." isn't exactly the most effective mission statement, and it's an even less effective battle cry.

    Having said all this,

    I am still a member.

    I am not a Mom's need action super secret operative.

    I do not want them to crash and burn.

    I don't have a replacement for them, if and when they do.

    Sacrificing bumpy sticks for nothing in return is not compromise, it's capitulation.

    I've always supported their efforts and accomplishments in firearms education, for all levels of shooters.

    If Ted Nugent really wanted 10K to go to the Yinzburg rally, then F him!

    I am not a Russian troll.



    I believe their leadership could use some new blood and perspective. A mere dilution of the swamp fudds influence would have a positive effect.

    All NRA members (and everyone else) are entitled to their opinions. Criticizing the NRA's decisions and tactics that you don't agree with, does not ammount to treason, any more than it does to do the same with President Trump or The Grand Old Party.

    We the people get the leadership we deserve. I don't exempt myself from this statement. Most of us could, and need to do more, and become more involved in the process.

    Political power and influence is important, what you do with it is even more so.

    Uncle Ben was right.

    Please explain this as I do not recall hearing anything about the NRA or more specifically Ted regarding the rally.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: how do we fix the nra ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgie View Post
    Please explain this as I do not recall hearing anything about the NRA or more specifically Ted regarding the rally.
    It was 50K.

    We asked him to come support the Pittsburgh rally and his agent replied with a letter stating that the fee was 50K plus a laundry list of pampering items.

    He also charges the NRA for his presence.
    Life has a melody. Not great, not terrible.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: how do we fix the nra ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    It was 50K.

    We asked him to come support the Pittsburgh rally and his agent replied with a letter stating that the fee was 50K plus a laundry list of pampering items.

    He also charges the NRA for his presence.
    LMAO yeah sorry he's never been worth $10.00 to me in any way shape or forum.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: how do we fix the nra ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    It was 50K.

    We asked him to come support the Pittsburgh rally and his agent replied with a letter stating that the fee was 50K plus a laundry list of pampering items.

    He also charges the NRA for his presence.
    If I look at both sides of the coin, I can see that his time is his time (Not ours to use). He would have expenses in coming here and who knows what other projects he has going. He isn't directly affected by the Pittsburgh or any PA BS. If he gave up his time to attend every event he was wanted for (just guessing here) and come to the event(s) on his own dime - it could get rather expensive.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: how do we fix the nra ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nra-life-member View Post
    If I look at both sides of the coin, I can see that his time is his time (Not ours to use). He would have expenses in coming here and who knows what other projects he has going. He isn't directly affected by the Pittsburgh or any PA BS. If he gave up his time to attend every event he was wanted for (just guessing here) and come to the event(s) on his own dime - it could get rather expensive.
    Yep, he's a celebrity. This is what we get when we have so called 2A celebrities.
    Life has a melody. Not great, not terrible.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: how do we fix the nra ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nra-life-member View Post
    If I look at both sides of the coin, I can see that his time is his time (Not ours to use). He would have expenses in coming here and who knows what other projects he has going. He isn't directly affected by the Pittsburgh or any PA BS. If he gave up his time to attend every event he was wanted for (just guessing here) and come to the event(s) on his own dime - it could get rather expensive.
    Everyone's time is worth money so I agree with you one that, some are just worth more then others and personally his isn't worth anything to me. With him there it would have turned into the Uncle Ted show anyway and the media would have made that the focal point for the entire thing not a movement by the people themselves.

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