Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #51
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    Default Re: Gun confiscation Trump WH

    I watched his meeting today. Super impressed I may say.
    I love that man. And may god bless him.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Gun confiscation Trump WH

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    As for supporting Trump, you have to look at the big picture. Sure, you can say "I'm not going to support Trump because he yielded to the 99% of media that were demanding "something" on bump stocks", and I demand perfection." OK, who's your perfect candidate? Someone that matches you exactly on 100 out of 100 issues, someone who stands a real chance of winning a primary and a general election? I'm open to a list of names.
    I'm more disappointed with his support of laws that violated Due Process, the so-called "Protective confiscation" laws. Aka "Red Flag" laws. I sure hope that he's backed off of such non-sense.

    The bump stock ban? I don't like how he did it. I'm concerned that the "Trump Precedent" will be applied to all sorts of items. The ban itself is an irritant, and probably an appetizer for the gun control nuts.

    I'm still wondering if the "cause/excuse" went down as we were told. The FBI report on that shooting is still being held up. People allege other shooters. I don't know, I wasn't there. Heck, what was that guy doing? Where did he get his money? Casinos don't like professional gamblers, they like professional losers. So what was this guy's story, not the narrative of bump stocks? Was he even a shooter, maybe he was a patsy? Nobody knows, he died. I'd like to hear the full story.

    If Trump had really been a worried he would ask Congress to ban "assault weapons". That he won't do. George W Bush said that he would sign such a law when he was President. Trump seems to be doing better than Bush.


    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    At the same time, there really are mentally ill folks who can't be trusted with guns or cars or gasoline, and maybe we should deal with that.
    We did in 1968. Called the Gun Control Act. Made it a crime for persons adjudicated "mentally incompetent" to purchase firearms. One could argue based upon case law since that time that such persons are not allowed to carry them concealed or to even own them. Such persons are often under some sort of custodial management. We used to have mental hospitals for the criminally insane. Are they still around, and if so, why are dangerous people at liberty?

    I don't understand what more needs done. We have had the mechanisms to deal with dangerous persons for decades. In Pennsylvania we have people with 302 disquals too. In some cases they're probably not even a threat to anyone, but that was our lovely Legislature back when Heartbreak Ridge was governor. In exchange for some fluff about "right to keep and bear arms" people could be denied based upon allegations. I know eccentric persons who got admitted under 302.

    Some have suggested a mental health check. What on Earth does that mean? The gun control nuts would just say that having a gun in your home makes you more likely to die, which means wanting to own a firearm is a death wish, which would be a form of mental illness.

    Given how Law Suits go in this country turning Doctors into Pre-Crime analysts sounds like De Jure gun prohibition. One in ten Americans is on some sort of medication. Are we talking about 33 million "mentally ill" people who are a threat to us all? They are on the roads in vehicles, pumping gasoline, cooking food, treating your water, maybe patrolling in a police car or doing surgery on children. Where is the violence, except with late adolescents, in rare cases?


    Phil, I'm happy to have a polite discussion about what you meant by that. I'm not here to slam people, unless they get seriously rude with me. I don't associate you with Rude. So if you would, please elaborate.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Gun confiscation Trump WH

    Quote Originally Posted by westscoutguy View Post
    DNC mole? Really? First of all, everybody hates me, but Democrats definitely hate me the most. I hard line on gun rights. You're against guns, no vote from me. As for an alternative candidate, Trump was the alternative. Now that he's shown himself to be liberal on gun control, I don't know anyone. And I will rag on Republicans until the party no longer gives in on guns. I'm by no means happy with the NRA either, but there's no chance of a viable alternative there. And again, really, a DNC mole? They're like Russian trolls: probably don't exist.
    There absolutely are DNC moles, and you can spot them because they seek to destroy the GOP without providing any alternative to the DNC. Their message is "Trump is awful and nobody should vote for him", and that's all they will admit, since their goal is for the DNC to win. A mostly-conservative forum with 77K member will draw Progressive moles like entitlement programs draw illegal aliens.

    The DNC and its allies talk about them openly, as any non-mole here would have to admit after 5 minutes of Google searching:

    https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000...c-b3e3368b0000

    https://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...icle-1.2613980

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/hillar...t-and-facebook

    PAFOA doesn't exist to allow deceptive moles to lie with impunity. The gap between Trump and Hillary in 2016 (Trump 2,970,733; Hillary Clinton 2,926,441) was less than the membership of PAFOA, so swaying groups like ours by getting enough of us to stay home, or waste a vote on a 3rd party, is worth a lot of money to the disreputable Left.


    Quote Originally Posted by GeneCC View Post
    I'm more disappointed with his support of laws that violated Due Process, the so-called "Protective confiscation" laws. Aka "Red Flag" laws. I sure hope that he's backed off of such non-sense.

    The bump stock ban? I don't like how he did it. I'm concerned that the "Trump Precedent" will be applied to all sorts of items. The ban itself is an irritant, and probably an appetizer for the gun control nuts.

    I'm still wondering if the "cause/excuse" went down as we were told. The FBI report on that shooting is still being held up. People allege other shooters. I don't know, I wasn't there. Heck, what was that guy doing? Where did he get his money? Casinos don't like professional gamblers, they like professional losers. So what was this guy's story, not the narrative of bump stocks? Was he even a shooter, maybe he was a patsy? Nobody knows, he died. I'd like to hear the full story.

    If Trump had really been a worried he would ask Congress to ban "assault weapons". That he won't do. George W Bush said that he would sign such a law when he was President. Trump seems to be doing better than Bush.




    We did in 1968. Called the Gun Control Act. Made it a crime for persons adjudicated "mentally incompetent" to purchase firearms. One could argue based upon case law since that time that such persons are not allowed to carry them concealed or to even own them. Such persons are often under some sort of custodial management. We used to have mental hospitals for the criminally insane. Are they still around, and if so, why are dangerous people at liberty?

    I don't understand what more needs done. We have had the mechanisms to deal with dangerous persons for decades. In Pennsylvania we have people with 302 disquals too. In some cases they're probably not even a threat to anyone, but that was our lovely Legislature back when Heartbreak Ridge was governor. In exchange for some fluff about "right to keep and bear arms" people could be denied based upon allegations. I know eccentric persons who got admitted under 302.

    Some have suggested a mental health check. What on Earth does that mean? The gun control nuts would just say that having a gun in your home makes you more likely to die, which means wanting to own a firearm is a death wish, which would be a form of mental illness.

    Given how Law Suits go in this country turning Doctors into Pre-Crime analysts sounds like De Jure gun prohibition. One in ten Americans is on some sort of medication. Are we talking about 33 million "mentally ill" people who are a threat to us all? They are on the roads in vehicles, pumping gasoline, cooking food, treating your water, maybe patrolling in a police car or doing surgery on children. Where is the violence, except with late adolescents, in rare cases?


    Phil, I'm happy to have a polite discussion about what you meant by that. I'm not here to slam people, unless they get seriously rude with me. I don't associate you with Rude. So if you would, please elaborate.
    I wrote "At the same time, there really are mentally ill folks who can't be trusted with guns or cars or gasoline, and maybe we should deal with that." I meant all the words, including gas and cars. People who are proven dangerous shouldn't be standing in line behind your wife in the supermarket, they shouldn't be able to buy as much gasoline as they want, they shouldn't have access to knives and axes. The solution is NOT to lock up every dangerous item, the solution is to lock up the truly dangerous people. Not all mentally ill people, just the "mentally ill folks who can't be trusted with guns or cars or gasoline".

    Many years ago, when a crime victim was being shown photos from the mug shot file, he asked, "how did you get all these photos?" The cop said "when we had them in custody before." "Why didn't you keep them in custody?"

    It's a good question; we know that recidivism is the rule, that offenders will re-offend, and that the most efficient path would be to identify the violent criminals ONCE and then deal with them. Catch & release just provides a permanent rotating criminal population to victimize the taxpayers.

    I'm not saying that we need to do pre-crime arrests, sending the twisted or the dissidents off to gulags; I'm saying that the notion that murder and rape and assault should be "affordable" to the perps, such that the risk of punishment seems reasonable, isn't working. You crawl into your neighbor's window and rape her at knifepoint ONCE and you're done, you should never walk the streets again. Our focus on the possibility of rehabilitation, while ignoring the certainty of recidivism, has failed, like all utopian ideas.

    If we locked up the bad people who did bad things until we were sure that they were good people, we could sell guns through vending machines to the free population. But letting bad folks walk free after a brief time-out just doesn't work. We don't need "gun control" at all, we need "bad people control".
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ungawa's M16A1 is for sale, see the NFA ads! http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.ph...06#post3835606

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Gun confiscation Trump WH

    I don't know how many times, in my career beginning in 1962, I and associates shook our heads in frustration when we arrested a violent offender and found the five-page rap sheet, listing past crimes and guilty dispositions that screamed how in hell is this guy not in jail???

    Nothing has changed. How many years of the revolving door before someone in charge notices and says enough?

    Some had noticed, and it was obvious that the problem was the sentencing judge. From that, came the mandatory sentencing laws. It can be readily seen that that is a very poor way to handle cases on a case by case basis, each having its particulars.

    Now the pendulum swings once more, with the latest pending releases of "non-violent offenders" who contributed to the drug market by helping create the cartels reason for existing.
    Last edited by Bang; January 3rd, 2019 at 01:45 PM.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Gun confiscation Trump WH

    Quote Originally Posted by Bang View Post
    I don't know how many times, in my career beginning in 1962, I and associates shook our heads in frustration when we arrested a violent offender and found the five-page rap sheet, listing past crimes and guilty dispositions that screamed how in hell is this guy not in jail???

    Nothing has changed. How many years of the revolving door before someone in charge notices and says enough?

    Some had noticed, and it was obvious that the problem was the sentencing judge. From that, came the mandatory sentencing laws. It can be readily seen that that is a very poor way to handle cases on a case by case basis, each having its particulars.

    Now the pendulum swings once more, with the latest pending releases of "non-violent offenders" who contributed to the drug market by helping create the cartels reason for existing.
    I have always felt like that was the problem.
    If it ain't broke it ain't mine.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Gun confiscation Trump WH

    Quote Originally Posted by Bang View Post
    I don't know how many times, in my career beginning in 1962, I and associates shook our heads in frustration when we arrested a violent offender and found the five-page rap sheet, listing past crimes and guilty dispositions that screamed how in hell is this guy not in jail???

    Nothing has changed. How many years of the revolving door before someone in charge notices and says enough?

    Some had noticed, and it was obvious that the problem was the sentencing judge. From that, came the mandatory sentencing laws. It can be readily seen that that is a very poor way to handle cases on a case by case basis, each having its particulars.

    Now the pendulum swings once more, with the latest pending releases of "non-violent offenders" who contributed to the drug market by helping create the cartels reason for existing.
    I mostly agree.

    I deal with people who have reformed, they had 1 incident or a spree a dozen or more years ago, and their subsequent behavior has been good; these people are deserving of being full citizens, with all the associated rights. That's entirely different from a predator who serves an arbitrary period in prison and is then unleashed on society with zero evidence that he's reformed. And dickheads like Cuomo make it clear that they care nothing for the safety of us little people, as they simultaneously pardon murderers as a political prank, and disarm the law-abiding out of spite.

    Any "leader" who makes you defenseless while coddling the predators, is an enemy of the people of this country, and should be treated accordingly, instead of being elected to high office and given power.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ungawa's M16A1 is for sale, see the NFA ads! http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.ph...06#post3835606

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