Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #671
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY*** UPDATED INFO IN OP***

    Quote Originally Posted by LBaker View Post
    I'm not getting into a pissing match. I'll be there tomorrow carrying the way I always do, which btw would be illegal under there ordinances...
    I agree, and neither do I. It's just that it's bad enough the MSM is actively trying to infiltrate and destroy our cause, they don't need any help from people who are supposed to be on our side!
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    μολ ν λαβέ
    What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!

  2. #672
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY*** UPDATED INFO IN OP***

    "only 8 people attend"
    "lots of people aren't attending the way we want them to"
    i doubt this discussion happens when 20,000 people show up to protest an indian man speaking about regaining our freedoms.

    there was two ND in gettysburg if i recall, one of the officers after some fool brought a shitty revolver, no injuries iirc.
    little media fanfare, only two three years ago.
    "Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” – John Stark

  3. #673
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY*** UPDATED INFO IN OP***

    Quote Originally Posted by frick View Post
    Do remember, that you ARE, all of you ARE spokespeople for the cause
    This can't be repeated enough.

  4. #674
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY*** UPDATED INFO IN OP***

    Unfortunately I have never been to a rally, but this internal strife seems to be a reason for low turnouts. Instead of saying, 'you want to open carry or conceal carry or dress like a big vagina, I don't care as long as you show up and support the cause', we have people not attending because people aren't protesting the way they want. If you look at a liberal rally there are people from all walks of life uniting for a common cause (albeit one I disagres with) and they get 1000s of attendees. We get people bailing out because people are legally carrying firearms (the freakin thing we are protesting about) or aren't wearing suits and ties.

  5. #675
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY***

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    FOAC is dead to me.

    Stay out of our way Josh, and Kim. You've done nothing by try to undermine our efforts, and today, 24 hours from the event, you can't help but to blast our your old ways of thinking



    "Tomorrow, January 7th, at noon there will be a Rally in the City of Pittsburgh at the City/County building by gunowners to openly decry the proposed clearly illegal efforts to enact local gun control. Normally, I would be overjoyed at seeing Pennsylvania gunowners stand up and be outspoken in their opposition to gun control and violations of rights but I have deep reservations about this particular Rally.

    First, it’s important to understand that the focus of this Rally is rooted in the firearms preemption issue and the accountability of local governments to the law, which the City of Pittsburgh is clearly flaunting! I believe that the organizers of this Rally have allowed the passions of a few gunowners over open carry to hijack the true mission and purpose of this Rally in demonstrating public opposition to what Mayor Peduto and city Council are doing. I want to be perfectly clear that the mission of this Rally should be laser focused on Title 18 section 6120, preemption of firearms laws reserved to the state and not open carry.

    All too often, in my experience, well-intentioned but politically naïve gunowners have allowed politicians and officials to take advantage of those passions about the Constitution. In my opinion and of other long-time activists, this is occurring right now and we are in danger of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!

    The City of Pittsburgh knows that what they’re doing is illegal and constitute criminal violations of the law. That is the message that must be delivered to the people in the center of the political debate! This is about accountability of our elected officials and the failure of our justice system to hold government accountable. Perhaps more importantly, it is about our Constitution and the inviolate rights, therein mentioned! So, I would like all of you to ask yourselves, how does the open carry of rifles and shotguns contribute to convincing the average Joe citizen that what the City of Pittsburgh is doing is unlawful and how can it be used against us?

    I also want to be clear that I’ve gone on open carry walks with gunowners when that was the purpose of the walk to dispel the myth of the danger of firearms ownership but this is not about the dangers of firearms ownership – this is about the authority, or lack thereof, of what the City of Pittsburgh is doing and the agenda of anti-gun groups to push local control of gun laws. What is happening now behind-the-scenes and in the bowels of the media is an attempt to brand these actions as attempts to intimidate city government and will be portrayed, and in fact already has been, as a bunch of right-wing kooks who should be looked down upon! In point of fact, one news article has already attempted to draw connections between us and the KKK!

    There is an old saying about gun owners and that trying to work with them is like trying to herd cats! This is exactly what is happening over this Rally. Not only that but most of the people involved in this Rally have contributed little if anything to fighting for rights in this state. Pumping up one’s chest on a blog or on social media is easy to hide behind bluster and ignorant responses and using pseudonyms only heightens that problem. When trying to explain to these individuals about the problems that may arise at this Rally if the focus does not stay on preemption, the responses have fallen into the category of ignorance, rudeness and a lack of respect and quite frankly, I’m fed up! Take a look at this link and the accusatory tone and see what you think:

    I’m happy to talk to any gun owner, who has an open mind and wants to listen, about the multi-dimensions that it takes to understand how to defend the right to bear arms. In my involvement over the last 35 years, I have seen a number of individuals who get involved, try to take over, make a huge number of mistakes, and then leave that mess for others to clean up! Unfortunately, I don’t think many of these individuals involved in the Rally understand that the consequences of mistakes tomorrow can have a dramatic effect on the long-term impact on not only the City of Pittsburgh legal action but also potential legislative changes that it may be impossible to recover from.

    WHAT CAN GO WRONG?

    There are Pennsylvania laws regulating the ‘lawful’ transportation and carrying of firearms that must be observed. For instance, many of those in the Rally seem to discount the impact of the emergency declaration by the governor over opioids.

    https://blog.princelaw.com/2018/04/0...-of-emergency/
    https://blog.princelaw.com/2018/01/1...-of-emergency/
    The fact is, as you can see above, that 18 Pa.C.S. § 6107(a) specifically limits the open carrying of all firearms, inclusive of rifles and shotguns, “upon the public streets or upon any public property during an emergency” in the absence of a license to carry firearms. This means that the lawful carrying or display of rifles and shotguns is limited to your own private property, unless you have a license to carry firearms. When we have tried to point this out, many, without even reading the law, have rejected what the law, unfortunately, explicitly states. While we question the constitutionality of such a provision, given the current political/judicial climate, this is a very dangerous attitude because a violation of this section of law is a misdemeanor of the first degree, which means you would lose your right to keep and bear arms for the rest of your life, if successfully prosecuted. Is it not irresponsible to ignore the potential dangers of being arrested at a Rally openly carrying a rifle or shotgun? Remember, the law does NOT draw a distinction between the firearm being loaded or not.

    Many citizens, even non-gun owners, accept the fact that Pennsylvania citizens can carry a handgun openly or concealed and this political fight involves convincing the citizens in the center of the debate that we are constitutionally and legally correct and acting in a reasonable fashion. Yet, the comments on social media demonstrate that some of those at the Rally feel comfortable with a confrontational attitude that will be made to appear provocative and unreasonable by the media. I can understand that many citizens who own firearms are sick and tired of the demagoguery going on in the public domain regarding the right to bear arms and gun control – I get it! But now is not the time to engage in behavior that will be viewed by many as irresponsible!

    Let’s hypothesize for a moment. Even if the emergency declaration did not exist, 18 Pa.C.S. § 6106 does not allow a citizen to carry a rifle or shotgun loaded in one’s vehicle. So what that means is that we’re going to have gun owners (ostensibly abiding by the law) transporting a rifle or shotgun down to the City of Pittsburgh and then once they’ve parked their vehicle and are getting out, loading and chambering a live round of ammunition in a public place. What can go wrong here? So in the light of this hypothetical, let’s consider the AR 15, which has a floating firing pin. And the gun owner is chambering commercial ammunition and not military ammunition, which has a harder, more resistant primer. I have seen cases of accidental discharge with an AR 15 when using commercial 223 ammunition. How do you think the media is going to treat an accidental discharge in a public parking space, even if no one is hurt? Yet on social media and in certain blogs, I’ve been vilified for stating that gunowners should keep an empty chamber and a flag in a chamber as a way of identifying that the firearm is safe and unloaded. Who is acting irresponsibly here? Remember all gun owners are trusting the Rally organizers and their fellow gun owners at the Rally to act in a manner that will not jeopardize the rights of all!

    The below links are some of the interviews that I have done in the last few days and I want you to pay particular attention to the KDKA report that shows contrasting video of a Ku Klux Klan rally juxtaposed against the planned gun owner Rally for tomorrow.

    https://www.wpxi.com/news/top-storie...-law/899245688
    https://www.nratv.com/videos/relentl...sburgh-gun-ban
    https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2019...-no-guns-sign/
    https://kdkaradio.radio.com/articles...ly-controversy
    https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2019...-preparations/
    Even more disconcerting, beyond the fact that I have become aware that the media has already prepared draft articles about the Rally, which denigrate gun owners and attempt to distract from the real issue, I have been informed that provocateurs are being brought in to the Rally for the sole purpose of trying to provoke gun owners to react in an irresponsible manner and that both the media and police are already investigating social media posts of gun owners, in which those posters are allegedly provoking the police and making threats.

    As you can see, the bias in local media is clear and they intend to demonize gunowners and distract from the fact that the City of Pittsburgh is violating Pennsylvania law. So perhaps now it becomes a little more clear why I’m concerned about the statements of certain gunowners on social media as well as what impact improper handling of firearms can have in changing the terms of the debate and causing us to potentially lose our preemption statute with a bad court decision that is biased because of their actions!

    I have done everything in my power to try and explain to these Rally attendees the importance of acting and appearing professional and being very careful with the handling and transportation of their firearms, as well as, the dangers of violating Pennsylvania law. I am crossing my fingers and hoping that this Rally comes off without an incident of any kind.

    Yours in Freedom!

    Kim Stolfer, President"
    Just seeing this on my lunch break.

    Now I'm even more pissed that I have to work tomorrow.

    Where the hell did he post that?

    So much for FOAC not being involved in this rally.
    Talk about the divisive pot calling the kettle black.

    Maybe he can convince the NRA to shit in us too while he's at it?

  6. #676
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY*** UPDATED INFO IN OP***

    Quote Originally Posted by DK23 View Post
    Unfortunately I have never been to a rally, but this internal strife seems to be a reason for low turnouts. Instead of saying, 'you want to open carry or conceal carry or dress like a big vagina, I don't care as long as you show up and support the cause', we have people not attending because people aren't protesting the way they want. If you look at a liberal rally there are people from all walks of life uniting for a common cause (albeit one I disagres with) and they get 1000s of attendees. We get people bailing out because people are legally carrying firearms (the freakin thing we are protesting about) or aren't wearing suits and ties.
    I wouldn't let it bother me. JustinHEMI seems to have done a good job and we'll do our thing, the others can do theirs whatever it may be. Just say the minimum, if anything to the media.
    If it ain't broke it ain't mine.

  7. #677
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    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY*** UPDATED INFO IN OP***

    Quote Originally Posted by bogey1 View Post
    Are quadcopters legal to fly at the event? If so, if someone has one, put it up and film the event.
    I was considering bringing my Spark, even though the Mavic would do a lot better, but the odds of getting it home in one piece if there are counterprotesters seem vanishingly small. Just one well chucked rock is all it'd take.

  8. #678
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY*** UPDATED INFO IN OP***

    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
    I wouldn't let it bother me. JustinHEMI seems to have done a good job and we'll do our thing, the others can do theirs whatever it may be. Just say the minimum, if anything to the media.
    I'm more worried about how to use the restroom carrying a rifle than anything else. Maybe I'll take some tips from the NYE folks and wear a diaper

  9. #679
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY***

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    Just seeing this on my lunch break.

    Now I'm even more pissed that I have to work tomorrow.

    Where the hell did he post that?

    So much for FOAC not being involved in this rally.
    Talk about the divisive pot calling the kettle black.

    Maybe he can convince the NRA to shit in us too while he's at it?
    Yeah and if goes really well and effects any positive change expect them to swoop in and claim an NRA victory.

  10. #680
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY*** UPDATED INFO IN OP***

    Quote Originally Posted by DK23 View Post
    I'm more worried about how to use the restroom carrying a rifle than anything else. Maybe I'll take some tips from the NYE folks and wear a diaper
    Stall is easy, and a buddy makes urinals simple. One person hold both rifles while the other uses the facilities, then switch.

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