Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #651
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY*** UPDATED INFO IN OP***

    Question: At What Point Do ‘We The People’ Revolt?

    http://www.awwba.com/question-point-people-revolt/
    "Having a gun and thinking you are armed is like having a piano and thinking you are a musician" Col. Jeff Cooper (U.S.M.C. Ret.)
    Speed is fine, Accuracy is final


  2. #652
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY***

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    FOAC is dead to me.

    Stay out of our way Josh, and Kim. You've done nothing by try to undermine our efforts, and today, 24 hours from the event, you can't help but to blast our your old ways of thinking



    "Tomorrow, January 7th, at noon there will be a Rally in the City of Pittsburgh at the City/County building by gunowners to openly decry the proposed clearly illegal efforts to enact local gun control. Normally, I would be overjoyed at seeing Pennsylvania gunowners stand up and be outspoken in their opposition to gun control and violations of rights but I have deep reservations about this particular Rally.

    First, it’s important to understand that the focus of this Rally is rooted in the firearms preemption issue and the accountability of local governments to the law, which the City of Pittsburgh is clearly flaunting! I believe that the organizers of this Rally have allowed the passions of a few gunowners over open carry to hijack the true mission and purpose of this Rally in demonstrating public opposition to what Mayor Peduto and city Council are doing. I want to be perfectly clear that the mission of this Rally should be laser focused on Title 18 section 6120, preemption of firearms laws reserved to the state and not open carry.

    All too often, in my experience, well-intentioned but politically naïve gunowners have allowed politicians and officials to take advantage of those passions about the Constitution. In my opinion and of other long-time activists, this is occurring right now and we are in danger of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!

    The City of Pittsburgh knows that what they’re doing is illegal and constitute criminal violations of the law. That is the message that must be delivered to the people in the center of the political debate! This is about accountability of our elected officials and the failure of our justice system to hold government accountable. Perhaps more importantly, it is about our Constitution and the inviolate rights, therein mentioned! So, I would like all of you to ask yourselves, how does the open carry of rifles and shotguns contribute to convincing the average Joe citizen that what the City of Pittsburgh is doing is unlawful and how can it be used against us?

    I also want to be clear that I’ve gone on open carry walks with gunowners when that was the purpose of the walk to dispel the myth of the danger of firearms ownership but this is not about the dangers of firearms ownership – this is about the authority, or lack thereof, of what the City of Pittsburgh is doing and the agenda of anti-gun groups to push local control of gun laws. What is happening now behind-the-scenes and in the bowels of the media is an attempt to brand these actions as attempts to intimidate city government and will be portrayed, and in fact already has been, as a bunch of right-wing kooks who should be looked down upon! In point of fact, one news article has already attempted to draw connections between us and the KKK!

    There is an old saying about gun owners and that trying to work with them is like trying to herd cats! This is exactly what is happening over this Rally. Not only that but most of the people involved in this Rally have contributed little if anything to fighting for rights in this state. Pumping up one’s chest on a blog or on social media is easy to hide behind bluster and ignorant responses and using pseudonyms only heightens that problem. When trying to explain to these individuals about the problems that may arise at this Rally if the focus does not stay on preemption, the responses have fallen into the category of ignorance, rudeness and a lack of respect and quite frankly, I’m fed up! Take a look at this link and the accusatory tone and see what you think:

    I’m happy to talk to any gun owner, who has an open mind and wants to listen, about the multi-dimensions that it takes to understand how to defend the right to bear arms. In my involvement over the last 35 years, I have seen a number of individuals who get involved, try to take over, make a huge number of mistakes, and then leave that mess for others to clean up! Unfortunately, I don’t think many of these individuals involved in the Rally understand that the consequences of mistakes tomorrow can have a dramatic effect on the long-term impact on not only the City of Pittsburgh legal action but also potential legislative changes that it may be impossible to recover from.

    WHAT CAN GO WRONG?

    There are Pennsylvania laws regulating the ‘lawful’ transportation and carrying of firearms that must be observed. For instance, many of those in the Rally seem to discount the impact of the emergency declaration by the governor over opioids.

    https://blog.princelaw.com/2018/04/0...-of-emergency/
    https://blog.princelaw.com/2018/01/1...-of-emergency/
    The fact is, as you can see above, that 18 Pa.C.S. § 6107(a) specifically limits the open carrying of all firearms, inclusive of rifles and shotguns, “upon the public streets or upon any public property during an emergency” in the absence of a license to carry firearms. This means that the lawful carrying or display of rifles and shotguns is limited to your own private property, unless you have a license to carry firearms. When we have tried to point this out, many, without even reading the law, have rejected what the law, unfortunately, explicitly states. While we question the constitutionality of such a provision, given the current political/judicial climate, this is a very dangerous attitude because a violation of this section of law is a misdemeanor of the first degree, which means you would lose your right to keep and bear arms for the rest of your life, if successfully prosecuted. Is it not irresponsible to ignore the potential dangers of being arrested at a Rally openly carrying a rifle or shotgun? Remember, the law does NOT draw a distinction between the firearm being loaded or not.

    Many citizens, even non-gun owners, accept the fact that Pennsylvania citizens can carry a handgun openly or concealed and this political fight involves convincing the citizens in the center of the debate that we are constitutionally and legally correct and acting in a reasonable fashion. Yet, the comments on social media demonstrate that some of those at the Rally feel comfortable with a confrontational attitude that will be made to appear provocative and unreasonable by the media. I can understand that many citizens who own firearms are sick and tired of the demagoguery going on in the public domain regarding the right to bear arms and gun control – I get it! But now is not the time to engage in behavior that will be viewed by many as irresponsible!

    Let’s hypothesize for a moment. Even if the emergency declaration did not exist, 18 Pa.C.S. § 6106 does not allow a citizen to carry a rifle or shotgun loaded in one’s vehicle. So what that means is that we’re going to have gun owners (ostensibly abiding by the law) transporting a rifle or shotgun down to the City of Pittsburgh and then once they’ve parked their vehicle and are getting out, loading and chambering a live round of ammunition in a public place. What can go wrong here? So in the light of this hypothetical, let’s consider the AR 15, which has a floating firing pin. And the gun owner is chambering commercial ammunition and not military ammunition, which has a harder, more resistant primer. I have seen cases of accidental discharge with an AR 15 when using commercial 223 ammunition. How do you think the media is going to treat an accidental discharge in a public parking space, even if no one is hurt? Yet on social media and in certain blogs, I’ve been vilified for stating that gunowners should keep an empty chamber and a flag in a chamber as a way of identifying that the firearm is safe and unloaded. Who is acting irresponsibly here? Remember all gun owners are trusting the Rally organizers and their fellow gun owners at the Rally to act in a manner that will not jeopardize the rights of all!

    The below links are some of the interviews that I have done in the last few days and I want you to pay particular attention to the KDKA report that shows contrasting video of a Ku Klux Klan rally juxtaposed against the planned gun owner Rally for tomorrow.

    https://www.wpxi.com/news/top-storie...-law/899245688
    https://www.nratv.com/videos/relentl...sburgh-gun-ban
    https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2019...-no-guns-sign/
    https://kdkaradio.radio.com/articles...ly-controversy
    https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2019...-preparations/
    Even more disconcerting, beyond the fact that I have become aware that the media has already prepared draft articles about the Rally, which denigrate gun owners and attempt to distract from the real issue, I have been informed that provocateurs are being brought in to the Rally for the sole purpose of trying to provoke gun owners to react in an irresponsible manner and that both the media and police are already investigating social media posts of gun owners, in which those posters are allegedly provoking the police and making threats.

    As you can see, the bias in local media is clear and they intend to demonize gunowners and distract from the fact that the City of Pittsburgh is violating Pennsylvania law. So perhaps now it becomes a little more clear why I’m concerned about the statements of certain gunowners on social media as well as what impact improper handling of firearms can have in changing the terms of the debate and causing us to potentially lose our preemption statute with a bad court decision that is biased because of their actions!

    I have done everything in my power to try and explain to these Rally attendees the importance of acting and appearing professional and being very careful with the handling and transportation of their firearms, as well as, the dangers of violating Pennsylvania law. I am crossing my fingers and hoping that this Rally comes off without an incident of any kind.

    Yours in Freedom!

    Kim Stolfer, President"
    Lets face it were any of their really strong member base going to be there any way?

    There are always going to be fair weather people in every group better to find them out now then down the line when you have your back to the wall and they bail. Price is an Attorney his job is to advise in the court room or interrogation room and I don't know if it's possible for him to think any differently then an attorney. He is an asset for sure but sometimes people need to take things beyond the court room and since absolutely no laws are directly or intentionally being broken I don't know why he is having a mini stroke about this. He should be advising and helping to the best of his ability since it's going to happen regardless of his personal feelings and all the BS being said rather then discouraging.

  3. #653
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY***

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgie View Post
    Lets face it were any of their really strong member base going to be there any way?

    There are always going to be fair weather people in every group better to find them out now then down the line when you have your back to the wall and they bail. Price is an Attorney his job is to advise in the court room or interrogation room and I don't know if it's possible for him to think any differently then an attorney. He is an asset for sure but sometimes people need to take things beyond the court room and since absolutely no laws are directly or intentionally being broken I don't know why he is having a mini stroke about this. He should be advising and helping to the best of his ability since it's going to happen regardless of his personal feelings and all the BS being said rather then discouraging.
    They don't need to actively undermine us. They could sit silently.
    Life has a melody.

  4. #654
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY***

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    They don't need to actively undermine us. They could sit silently.
    I agree but sooner or later they are going to try and fuck you one way or another better to know from day one.

    I hope this entire rally goes off without a single hitch, no one is hurt and nothing stupid is said or done at all especially in front of a camera, and leads towards some awareness and change. It will show these ass hats that they are indeed wrong and some things like the illegal forced implementation of laws is worth standing up for and taking a calculated risk.

    As far as the KKK fuck them and their rally it wont be hard to prove the difference between what they are screaming vs what your signs say. One of the speakers on stage should make it a point to disavow them while saying the two rallies have absolutely nothing in common since the 2nd amendment spans all American generations and is for all Americans regardless of color, gender, religion or race.

    The news may not report it but it will be captured on video by someone and can be easily proven. When has any fight for what was right not an uphill battle? When did the ones who were making the unjust laws ever not try and sabotage or discredit the freedom fighters? In the 60's the media made Malcolm X out to be a violent monster which he was a lie, today they will do it to us and that will be a lie too,. Somethings never change and history does in fact sometimes repeat itself.

    Imagine if Crispus Attucks a black man and possible former slave stayed home because his next door neighbor who probably hated him for being black or at least of mixed race told him to stay home it's not worth it (Yes I know he died lol). That goes for anyone ever throughout the course of American history who was tired of the government or law enforcement running a muck or extincting people and had the fortitude and the personal constitution to do something about it.
    Last edited by Hodgie; January 6th, 2019 at 05:09 PM.

  5. #655
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY***

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    They don't need to actively undermine us. They could sit silently.
    ASD.jpg

  6. #656
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY***

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgie View Post
    Lets face it were any of their really strong member base going to be there any way?
    Yes members of FOAC will be attending... Kim feels strongly about this and firmly believes that section 6107b refers back to the definition of firearms under 6106b. That's his OPINION. Who the hell knows what a court would do theses days?

  7. #657
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY***

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    They don't need to actively undermine us. They could sit silently.
    I read the entire post, I see nothing that is undermining the rally, they are advising caution, and pointing out possible outcomes that would be less than desirable if they occur.

    Forewarned if forearmed, don't let your testosterone create a pissing match where none exists, and don't let that same testosterone drive wedges where their doesn't need to be any.

    IF you haven't noticed, Democrats and liberals run a tight ship when it comes to them getting what they want, we need to learn that lesson, and do the same, and in this case, the outcome desired should be to force Pittsburgh NOT to proceed with the illegal laws they want to enact.

    I have never understood how strapping a 2 foot black dildo onto the front of your leather gear did a good job of promoting your alternative lifestyle as an acceptable one to people who don't understand that particular, way of life, and, I don't think that mounting a bayonet on your AR during a carry rally does anything to make it look like we gun owners aren't first and foremost concerned about killing people.

    There is a time and a place for every particular display of weaponry, I just don't know if it behooves the cause to do so at what is clearly going to be a politically charged, and liberally media covered event, remember they WANT us to LOOK BAD, they want us to look like the stereotypical redneck Bubba the mochine gun owner.

    By all means, this is America, burn a flag, wear a pussy hat, dress as a giant vagina, carry an AR openly, I prefer an AK myself, but I recognize that that same AK is considered "More evil'' than an AR, or Joe Bidens double barrel shotgun, passionate protest and debate is what separate us from Banana Republics, but never forget, you speak for all gun owners and 2nd Amendment defenders.

    That's all. Just think first, and don't do anything to cause harm.

    Good luck, and again, thanks for your actions in getting this whole thing rolling.

  8. #658
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY***

    Quote Originally Posted by frick View Post
    I read the entire post, I see nothing that is undermining the rally, they are advising caution, and pointing out possible outcomes that would be less than desirable if they occur.

    Forewarned if forearmed, don't let your testosterone create a pissing match where none exists, and don't let that same testosterone drive wedges where their doesn't need to be any.

    IF you haven't noticed, Democrats and liberals run a tight ship when it comes to them getting what they want, we need to learn that lesson, and do the same, and in this case, the outcome desired should be to force Pittsburgh NOT to proceed with the illegal laws they want to enact.

    I have never understood how strapping a 2 foot black dildo onto the front of your leather gear did a good job of promoting your alternative lifestyle as an acceptable one to people who don't understand that particular, way of life, and, I don't think that mounting a bayonet on your AR during a carry rally does anything to make it look like we gun owners aren't first and foremost concerned about killing people.

    There is a time and a place for every particular display of weaponry, I just don't know if it behooves the cause to do so at what is clearly going to be a politically charged, and liberally media covered event, remember they WANT us to LOOK BAD, they want us to look like the stereotypical redneck Bubba the mochine gun owner.

    By all means, this is America, burn a flag, wear a pussy hat, dress as a giant vagina, carry an AR openly, I prefer an AK myself, but I recognize that that same AK is considered "More evil'' than an AR, or Joe Bidens double barrel shotgun, passionate protest and debate is what separate us from Banana Republics, but never forget, you speak for all gun owners and 2nd Amendment defenders.

    That's all. Just think first, and don't do anything to cause harm.

    Good luck, and again, thanks for your actions in getting this whole thing rolling.
    I disagree. I believe that's his intent. It's ok to agree to disagree.
    Life has a melody.

  9. #659
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY*** UPDATED INFO IN OP***

    Quote Originally Posted by frick View Post
    I am not speaking for Josh, you can contact him on your own, that said, an attorneys job is to caution you, as, a good attorney isn't needed, if you don't have a reason to need HIM.

    He is correct however about the need to have a carry license, if you wish to bear an long arm during a state of emergency, I researched that long ago, before I ever heard of Josh.

    Do remember, that you ARE, all of you ARE spokespeople for the cause, I'd love to go down with my Barret M82 in a wheelbarrow, with one of my Krink SBRs on my back, but that exactly is what the liberal media is salivating for, so remember, the more radical you look the more likely you are to appear on the front page as "Bubba the OOC gun nut", or, on the cover of "Short penis daily" magazine.
    I'm the same spokesman whether I have a rifle slung or not and I appeared in "short penis monthly" (get the name right at least) well before I owned any scary black rifles.

    You get a pick up with 37" tires free if you appear twice.

  10. #660
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    Default Re: ***PITTSBURGH RIFLE OPEN CARRY*** UPDATED INFO IN OP***

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    Anyone with a smart phone should be video recording any and all interaction they have from start to finish. Public space, public event, no need to say "I'm recording this."

    IANAL
    That is fine, but no name calling, spitting, throwing urine etc. like the left do.

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