Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default How to get a full firing grip without bending/twisting your upper body?

    I'm a young guy (24) with no back/wrist problems or serious issues with flexibility, but I can't seem to get a full firing grip on my firearm at 4 o'clock IWB without bending or twisting my upper body; adjusting my wrist and arm angles haven't worked. I've had a reliable and quick draw for years now, but after listening to several firearms instructors (John Lovell, John Correia, Ernest Langdon, etc.) I realized I was only quick because I was getting as much as a purchase on the gun as was comfortable for me (about 2/3-3/4 of a full firing grip), and then adjusting the grip mid-draw.

    I could likely get a full firing grip with a 3 o'clock carry with 0 degree cant, but that's not very concealable except with a jacket.

    Am I just describing a reality of 4 o'clock IWB canted carry that can't be avoided?

  2. #2
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    Mar 2010
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    Narvon, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: How to get a full firing grip without bending/twisting your upper body?

    Personally , I've never been a fan of the 4 o'clock, but I'm shorter in the torso than most folk and at 5'8" unless its a snub revolver or a sub compact I have trouble clearing leather. My most frequent carry's are a J frame 649 or the HK USP compact .40. and since multiple wrist /elbow/shoulder surgeries its appendix or crossdraw from here on out and I feel they are great options. much more comfortable while driving and having the pistol up front, far less movement of the hand/arm to get a grip on it
    I've even been known to frequent a galco miami classic for the J frame,call me old fashioned great while on the MC. The 4 o'clock has been pushed by the gun gurus for some time now as the preferred carry a lot like the goofy straight support arm way out at the front sight on an AR
    experiment and practice at different options

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: How to get a full firing grip without bending/twisting your upper body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Musicman1eanda View Post
    I'm a young guy (24) with no back/wrist problems or serious issues with flexibility, but I can't seem to get a full firing grip on my firearm at 4 o'clock IWB without bending or twisting my upper body; adjusting my wrist and arm angles haven't worked. I've had a reliable and quick draw for years now, but after listening to several firearms instructors (John Lovell, John Correia, Ernest Langdon, etc.) I realized I was only quick because I was getting as much as a purchase on the gun as was comfortable for me (about 2/3-3/4 of a full firing grip), and then adjusting the grip mid-draw.

    I could likely get a full firing grip with a 3 o'clock carry with 0 degree cant, but that's not very concealable except with a jacket.

    Am I just describing a reality of 4 o'clock IWB canted carry that can't be avoided?
    -
    Welcome to PAFOA.

    Ultimately you need to do what works for you.
    Guns are very concealable at the 3:00 position with the right holster and clothing.

    I have carried at the 3:00 position for decades with no problems with concealment.
    If you want to conceal properly you need to dress around the gun.

    I agree that you need a good grip on your gun when drawing, and adjusting your grip mid draw is very bad for many reasons.
    So find what works for you with gun/holster/position/clothing, and then train, train, train, exclusively in your chosen configuration until you get it right.

    If you have not already done so, please register to vote, and please vote pro gun in every election every year.
    If you have questions about voting please post them and the PAFOA membership will help you out.
    Voter guides are posted in PAFOA before every election.

    Please also join the NRA and GOA to help protect your right to own and carry a gun.
    Free GOA memberships are available from me to anyone that cannot afford the $20 GOA membership fee.

    Best of luck to you.
    Bern-
    -
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Zelienople, Pennsylvania
    (Butler County)
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    Default Re: How to get a full firing grip without bending/twisting your upper body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Berncly View Post
    -
    Welcome to PAFOA.

    Ultimately you need to do what works for you.
    ....
    ^^^^ this. What works for someone else won't necessarily works for you, you need to figure things out on your own. How about the cant of the holster? Some IWB holsters like a Crossbreed Supertuck are adjustable, so you can change the angle of the gun and how high it rides. Sometimes a small change makes a big difference. And be prepared to try a few holsters before you find the right one.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Levittown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: How to get a full firing grip without bending/twisting your upper body?

    This is strictly from memory of reading Bill Jordan's "No Second Place Winner" many years ago. Bill Jordan preferred smooth grips on his revolver precisely for the reason described by OP.

    Jordan's primary concern was getting the gun out of the holster, followed by shifting the gun into the grip he wanted as he thrust the barrel toward the target. Smooth grips allowed this adjustment where checkered grips interfered with the transition.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    jersey shore, Pennsylvania
    (Lycoming County)
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    Default Re: How to get a full firing grip without bending/twisting your upper body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Berncly View Post
    -
    Welcome to PAFOA.

    Ultimately you need to do what works for you.
    Guns are very concealable at the 3:00 position with the right holster and clothing.

    I have carried at the 3:00 position for decades with no problems with concealment.
    If you want to conceal properly you need to dress around the gun.

    I agree that you need a good grip on your gun when drawing, and adjusting your grip mid draw is very bad for many reasons.
    So find what works for you with gun/holster/position/clothing, and then train, train, train, exclusively in your chosen configuration until you get it right.

    If you have not already done so, please register to vote, and please vote pro gun in every election every year.
    If you have questions about voting please post them and the PAFOA membership will help you out.
    Voter guides are posted in PAFOA before every election.

    Please also join the NRA and GOA to help protect your right to own and carry a gun.
    Free GOA memberships are available from me to anyone that cannot afford the $20 GOA membership fee.

    Best of luck to you.
    Bern-
    -
    Quote Originally Posted by scruff View Post
    ^^^^ this. What works for someone else won't necessarily works for you, you need to figure things out on your own. How about the cant of the holster? Some IWB holsters like a Crossbreed Supertuck are adjustable, so you can change the angle of the gun and how high it rides. Sometimes a small change makes a big difference. And be prepared to try a few holsters before you find the right one.
    Yepper

    If 3 o'clock works better, you can find a way to conceal it at 3. In my experience, people worry to much about minor printing when carrying. 99.9% of people won't notice a gun printing a little bit when you bend or sit. If it helps with your draw, don't sweat it. Nobody will even notice it.

    If you want to stick with 4 o'clock, you could try to adjust height of the holster too. That can really make a difference in getting a good grip before the draw. I generally carry at 4, and can get a firing grip before the draw, but I do have pretty long arms for my body.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    age: 57 Dillsburg, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
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    Default Re: How to get a full firing grip without bending/twisting your upper body?

    I have been carrying at 3 -330 almost since the start 36 years ago. I have a clip holster but have always favored a forward cant at 3 ish. My body seems to accomadate it better nearly perfectly at my side. I can and have adjusted it slightly but always ends up near this point. Height of carry and forward cant are inextricably linked for me. Before my shoulder surgery, I was able to blade slightly and keep my shoulder low as I drew. Looking straight at myself in the mirror, you couldn't even see that I was drawing. My body blocked forward view of my arm grasping the grip frame, and with my shoulder low and back, you couldn't see anything happening until I pressed the gun forward in a modified Chapman. What I found was, the original placement of the clip in the holster pocket was 1/4" too high which took the grip frame even with my belt line. By removing the clip and drilling the retaining screw hole lower in the pocket, it raised the whole holster and grip frame just high enough to allow perfect access to wrap my fingers and draw at the resulting perfect position for sight alignment and trigger press. 1/4" was all it took.
    I was all brought back home when I switched to lefty a year ago, and my left handed exact duplicate from Mark Garrity holsters is now, like my righty holster before it, 1/4" too low in the beltline for perfect purchase at every draw. Just haven't gotten around to drillling the lefty holster clip yet. Not sure if Im ready to switch back yet even though the shoulder is pretty good.

    Yeah, you gotta do what works for you. Don't let anyone tell you different.

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