2nd home in Pa I live in. I want purchase firearm in PA with NY Drivers license

[jljordann922]

What's the location or county of your PA home reside in I'm sure there's one FFL willing to help .

Pocono Pines (Monroe County)

[Xringshooter]

Also forgot to add:

DO NOT discuss this with the local PD or Sheriffs Office where your property is located (or anywhere else for that matter). They have absolutely no idea how things like this operate and they will give you their OPINION. I am not saying I know everything but I have done this many times over the past 15 or so years and have never had any problems with the PSP of the BATFE including when I have had my no notice compliance inspections. In fact, I just got done with one 2 months ago and this was after I had transferred the submachine gun to the NY/PA resident. Nothing was even mentioned about it and it was on the top of the forms he inspected.

[jljordann922]

Many PA FFL's do not understand the "dual state resident" applicability to buying firearms in PA. I deal with several buyers from NY and several more from other states. It is perfectly legal for a person who owns a home and property in PA to purchase a handgun for use while living in PA, even if the handgun is "illegal" in their other state of residence. The person buying the handgun while staying in PA must be cognizant of the fact that it CANNOT leave PA UNLESS they get the ok from their other state of residence. The people I deal with all leave the "PA" guns in PA. I have one NY/PA resident that I just transferred a submachine gun to. All perfectly legal according to PA and the NFA Division of the BATFE.

What is required to buy a gun while staying in PA is to work with a PA FFL who knows the law, and is willing to work with the buyer. The PSP wants the FFL to attach a copy of the buyers real estate taxes (paid) to the 4473 and the SP4-113 so it can be proven that the are legal property owners in PA. The FFL will have to talk to a PICS operator when the BGC is being done so that the PSP knows the situation (a handgun to a person with an out of state drivers license). I have never had any problems with the PICS operators doing one of these types of transfers. All of my customers also have heir LTCF from the county where their property is located.

As for the "proving" you reside in your PA home during the time you buying the firearm, that's impossible to do. How does someone prove that - have the FFL go to the home and see the refrigerator is full and the heat is turned on????

I take the word of the buyer, why else would they be in my shop on a Saturday to pick up a firearm they ordered and I have stored for anywhere up to several months. If they are not playing by the rules he will ultimately pay the price.

It's really not a big deal, the PSP sees this regularly and doesn't bat an eye.

Thanks again for the detailed response! This is very helpful. I will be in touch

[GOYABEAN]

Pocono Pines (Monroe County)

tenor-1.jpg

[lts1ow]

AFAIK, rent/lease also nets one dual residency status?

[Xringshooter]

AFAIK, rent/lease also nets one dual residency status?

Not as far as I know and have been told, other than a person in the military or a person going to college. Here is what the ATF says:

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a firearm in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not alone qualify the person to purchase a firearm in that State.

I have been told, by ATF agents, the word "maintains" means that the person owns property and a liveable structure in both states and pays real estate taxes in both states. Owning property with no liveable structure does not meet the requirement. Just renting or leasing a house also isn't necessarily "maintaining" a home according to the ATF. With the exception of college students and military personnel who have been ordered to a military assignment in PA.

Title 27 CFR Chapter II Part 478.11 (Meaning of Terms) also explains it a bit more.

[john9001]

You can only have one primary residence. Legally that is the one in which you live for more than six months a year. Pick one.

[IV_Warrior]

Not as far as I know and have been told, other than a person in the military or a person going to college. Here is what the ATF says:

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a firearm in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not alone qualify the person to purchase a firearm in that State.

I have been told, by ATF agents, the word "maintains" means that the person owns property and a liveable structure in both states and pays real estate taxes in both states. Owning property with no liveable structure does not meet the requirement. Just renting or leasing a house also isn't necessarily "maintaining" a home according to the ATF. With the exception of college students and military personnel who have been ordered to a military assignment in PA.

Title 27 CFR Chapter II Part 478.11 (Meaning of Terms) also explains it a bit more.

While it doesn't surprise me that the BATFE would say something like that, it just seems so completely wrong. Owning or renting shouldn't matter. Actually living there is what should be the determining factor. Own a house here that you use as an income property? No, that doesn't qualify you as a resident. Own/rent unimproved property? Nope.

[IV_Warrior]

You can only have one primary residence. Legally that is the one in which you live for more than six months a year. Pick one.

So what happens if I own 3 homes and live in each 4 months of the year? Am I not a resident of any state?

[snuffy19608]

You can buy a rifle/shotgun for your PA home without issue.

Handguns, well, you'll have to prove to a knowledgeable PA FFL that you do in fact reside at your PA home during the weekends.


There is no such thing as "dual residency" in the USA, except for college students, certain elected officials to Washington DC, and very limited cases for military personnel. You reside where you are for the given moment when you are in fact living there. The problem of which is that your ID(drivers license/state ID) is generally prima facie evidence of your residence, which doesn't take into account possible secondary residences.

A FFL has to follow federal law that limits his/her ability to only transfer handguns and "other firearms" to only residents of that state. Which then puts the burden upon you to prove you are in fact a resident at that very moment. Then, if the FFL believes you will violate another state's laws by taking said firearm to that other state - the FFL is again tasked with denying the transfer.


So, for you to buy a handgun in PA as a primary resident of NY(because your ID says such), but a secondary resident of PA:

1. You must 1st find a knowledgeable FFL
2. You must bring proof to that FFL that you do in fact reside in PA on weekends, during which time you would purchase said handgun
3. You must have a reasonable argument that you would not attempt to violate the other state's laws

MANY years ago I went into a Reading area FFL and wanted to purchase a Beretta 92. Everything went well until the clerk noticed my license had expired. I showed him my military ID (active duty AF at the time) and explained that Pa. did not require military to renew until we seperated. That was not acceptable. I pulled out my LES, showed him where it said Pa under state of legal residence. Still no go- he said that since the AF had mailed it to my PSC at the base that meant I was a NJ resident.

We argued for awhile, finally I left before the AF found out I was in trouble for hitting him. Got in my car and calmed down a bit, remembered I had the renewal card from the year before stuffed in my glovebox. Took that back in, they accepted that as ID.