Latest range controversy - Rockwell Tactical (PA)

[TonyF]

I'm not a high drag, low speed operator like some of you here, but I do have to ask, is there an actual valid reason for this type of drill?

Can't comment on this specific drill but the fellow in the other video stated that it's purpose is to inoculate students from what I presume is the typical fear factor humans experience in lethal threat encounters that involve gun fire.

I attended a class in 1996 by a very well known instructor who conducted a drill whereby the students were shooting past one another (which is the best way I can describe it) but which did not put students into the same degree of jeopardy as this drill does. Don't know if the instructor in question is still using it. It was my second formal class and I did not anticipate it was part of the curriculum. Back then I elected to participate in the drill but with more than two decades of formal training under my belt I would never participate in such an exercise again.

Some comments:

1. The difference between civilians participating in this kind of drill and SWAT / SOCOM Operators is that SWAT and the SOCOM guys get paid to do it and because it is part of their job description. I doubt many of them would do it if they didn't have to do it.

2. It matters not how well trained you are, even SWAT and the SOCOM guys do get killed in these kinds of drills. I know a retired SEAL, a well known trainer, and if I mentioned his name you would recognize him, who killed a team mate in just such a down range exercise.

3. There was a "take-away" from my aforementioned participation in that down range drill. It seared into my brain the four safety rules. From that point on the four rules meant allot more than they ever did prior to that event. Best way to describe it is that while we all practice the safety rules when we shoot, and while they are (or should be) the most important part of our focus, in that moment, in that drill, I was "living" the four safety rules. IOW, they took on much greater meaning and for lack of a better way to describe, they became "alive".

4. That said, I don't believe this type of inoculation is necessary to understand the gravity of the four safety rules or any other aspect of lethal threats that involve firearms. You'll get there eventually within the context of standard training classes. But what that drill did in essence, was accelerate the ingraining of the four rules in that one event. It otherwise accomplished in five minutes what years of training would have taken to ingrain.

Still and all, not recommended in open, civilian classes.

[Pag23]

Just head to Northern Virginia. Lots of good options like Green Opps

https://www.green-ops.com/

It is worth a little bit of a drive to get this level of training. Mike is a good guy and really know his stuff. He is on a lot of the Primary and Secondary podcasts on youtube if you ever heard of those.

Thanks for the info...

[FLICK]

Well...I suppose that now, there's no remaining "legitimate" training firms in South Central PA.

Sentinel Concepts aka Steve Fisher has classes in PA, albeit randomly. Next one in mid ‘19. Great class and great person to deal with.

https://sentinelconcepts.com/event/c...-employment-5/

[ar15jules]

As an LE firearm trainer, I use the following criteria when setting up drills. The benefit of the training MUST outweigh the level of risk involved in the drill. If you never go to a range, be it square or 360 degrees, the likelihood of being shot by your shooting buddy is pretty low. A trip to the range at your local gun club to shoot bullseye targets in the bay next to that same buddy adds more risk but is still pretty safe. Standing in the same bay with your buddy and simultaneously working on one hand draw, fire and manipulation drills raises the risk some more. Are you and/or your shooting buddy disciplined enough to keep your finger out of the trigger while racking a slide off of the heel of your boot, or off of a duty belt? Maybe, and maybe not. I would typically run this drill with inert rounds after demonstration. With a group of LE shooters, are they more likely to need to use a one handed manipulation of their firearm someday? Probably more than the average gun owner. So here, the benefit of the training outweighs the risk and is beneficial to the student. In the video shown, the civilian students participating in the drill during a one, two or three day class DID NOT benefit from the drill enough to conduct it. I have both run and participated in live fire training in 360 degree training facilities. I participated in these drills with men that I have worked with for countless hours on square ranges and during force on force training with simunition rounds. Not Joe or Tom that I met earlier in the day at class orientation. The instructor was acting egregiously by running the drill and the students were nuts for participating in it.

[Parrisk]

I think all the NOOBS that partake in this training will someday wake up and go "WTF EH?"

Absolutely NOT!!!! Maybe as a Delta Operator who spent years training with their buds.. but even then the training has little to no value and HUGE risk.. I would prefer special operator stairs training