Federal Red Flag Bill Coming!

[Wilderness 1864]

You are correct he said that ....................

President Trump also just signed the bump stock ban. No grandfathering, no compensation, you are felon virtually overnight. Again, the law trashes the 2A and the 5A. Enforcement will involve trashing 1A and 4A (speaking out against it, fighting it in court, or encouraging or promising non-compliance) will be used as a basis to actually raid, seize and prosecute. I anticipate that the Bump Stock Ban with be the proving ground for establishing the framework of law enforcement and prosecutorial infrastructure for the coming ban on semi auto rifles and handguns.

Most of the tools are already there. We already have a BATFE that has acted often in defiance of Constitutional protections and has shown a demonstrated willingness and eagerness to be part of the gun ban agenda (Fast and Furious comes to mind) as well as other cases of armed searches and seizures and harassment of legitimate gun dealers over questionable technical violations. The storm troopers are in place, it will be just a matter of hiring more of them. The FBI and the Justice Department is totally Deep State/Socialist and filled to overflowing with political hires and anti-2A zealots who will happily prosecute, manufacture evidence etc. (They have done it already to the Bundy's and others out west). The Federal Judiciary is as unjust and partisan as them come, despite Chief Justice Robert's lies and dissembling about it.

Feds will start by demanding manufacturing/sales records, retail sales records and credit card information. If they even bother to get warrants for this, they will be rubber stamped by Federal Judges. Look what they have done to the President under a FISA law that laughably claims to require higher standards. They will scruple less over the rights of a perceived gun nut. The media will lock step lie, deceive and promote the whole agenda.

No one will object to any of this, after all it's only bump stocks, not firearms. The infrastructure will be developed around this, the prosecutions will take place and when the time comes, they will be ready for the big confiscation.

[bluedog46]

Yeah, I'm going to quit messing around with this Trump guy he's a New York democrat in disguise and hasn't done a damn thing to help us. He's going to take away my bump stocks that obama gave me so if Elizabeth Warren or Joe Biden are running next time I'm voting for them because they are absolutely clear on gun control and red flag laws and hell they might even permit me to have my bump stocks like obama did.

Yeah but do you really think our gun rights stand a snowball chance in hell with justices that those people would appoint?? We have been pretty lucky with Trumps appointments.

President Trump also just signed the bump stock ban. No grandfathering, no compensation, you are felon virtually overnight. Again, the law trashes the 2A and the 5A. Enforcement will involve trashing 1A and 4A (speaking out against it, fighting it in court, or encouraging or promising non-compliance) will be used as a basis to actually raid, seize and prosecute. I anticipate that the Bump Stock Ban with be the proving ground for establishing the framework of law enforcement and prosecutorial infrastructure for the coming ban on semi auto rifles and handguns.

Most of the tools are already there. We already have a BATFE that has acted often in defiance of Constitutional protections and has shown a demonstrated willingness and eagerness to be part of the gun ban agenda (Fast and Furious comes to mind) as well as other cases of armed searches and seizures and harassment of legitimate gun dealers over questionable technical violations. The storm troopers are in place, it will be just a matter of hiring more of them. The FBI and the Justice Department is totally Deep State/Socialist and filled to overflowing with political hires and anti-2A zealots who will happily prosecute, manufacture evidence etc. (They have done it already to the Bundy's and others out west). The Federal Judiciary is as unjust and partisan as them come, despite Chief Justice Robert's lies and dissembling about it.

Feds will start by demanding manufacturing/sales records, retail sales records and credit card information. If they even bother to get warrants for this, they will be rubber stamped by Federal Judges. Look what they have done to the President under a FISA law that laughably claims to require higher standards. They will scruple less over the rights of a perceived gun nut. The media will lock step lie, deceive and promote the whole agenda.

No one will object to any of this, after all it's only bump stocks, not firearms. The infrastructure will be developed around this, the prosecutions will take place and when the time comes, they will be ready for the big confiscation.

First they came for the bump stocks and i said nothing. Then they came for the ar-15s and i said nothing. When they came for the 1911's there were not enough armed people to say anything.

[Wilderness 1864]

To add more backup for my argument I encourage you to read that article about the Massachussets governor refusing to obey court orders requiring the reinstatement of firearms licenses. The Governor claims he is following BATFE orders to require the withdrawal of the permits.

The BATFE is ready to go. They just need less restraint on their leash and the bumpstock ban is the perfect opportunity. Not that many people own them relatively speaking, few understand them and the media has brainwashed America into believing that they are evil. There is not a big constituency to defend them. That is the perfect target.

I doubt BATFE even needs warrants to do a lot of information gathering. They can start with all the FFLs, who have to make records available for inspection, and cull their records for leads to owners. Wanna bet that the anti-2A finance industry jwill happily just turns over records on demand, even without warrants?

Wanna bet that if you surrender your bump stock your name is automatically going on the "owner of assault weapon list"?

[JenniferG]

Wanna bet that if you surrender your bump stock your name is automatically going on the "owner of assault weapon list"?

If you used the NICS system to buy a firearm you're already on that list.

Today's Federal and State governments are not bound by any law and may proceed with whatever serves them best. We are no longer a nation of laws.

[Wilderness 1864]

If you used the NICS system to buy a firearm you're already on that list.

Today's Federal and State governments are not bound by any law and may proceed with whatever serves them best. We are no longer a nation of laws.

Well, it is hard to disagree with that. I am giving credit, for now, that the NICs system will not be abused and that other effective means will be used to by-pass the proscriptions in NIC for the safeguards on information. When all semi autos, are retroactively banned, they will probably mine the NICs system and mine the 4473s for whatever they want.

[Sgt.K]

Well, it is hard to disagree with that. I am giving credit, for now, that the NICs system will not be abused and that other effective means will be used to by-pass the proscriptions in NIC for the safeguards on information. When all semi autos, are retroactively banned, they will probably mine the NICs system and mine the 4473s for whatever they want.

[Defender]

If you used the NICS system to buy a firearm you're already on that list.

We are no longer a nation of laws.

You have that right. When a person who was the Sec. of State violated the Espionage Act by placing confidential/secret/top secret government materials on an unsecured private server and was not charged with the appropriate crime we are indeed no longer a nation of laws.

[GeneCC]

Well, it is hard to disagree with that. I am giving credit, for now, that the NICs system will not be abused and that other effective means will be used to by-pass the proscriptions in NIC for the safeguards on information. When all semi autos, are retroactively banned, they will probably mine the NICs system and mine the 4473s for whatever they want.

Ever read a Form 4473? They're hand written. Optical character recognition is pretty good, but I'm not sure that it's THAT good. I do not know how long as Dealer has to retain a 4473. Once they're gone and the books are gone, well, that's all she wrote.

The 4473 does not record if you sold off the firearm, traded it for something, had it stolen, your house burned down or your canoe tipped and the item sank to the bottom of the river. Sure doesn't know if you died.


The Brady checks are much better. We hand over our ID. All the Man knows is that we bought at least one item.


There have been how many gun owners since 1968? How many guns have been bought or transferred since 1968? How many times have each of us moved since 1968?

We're talking a gigantic issue to nail down everyone.

[GeneCC]

Well, it is hard to disagree with that. I am giving credit, for now, that the NICs system will not be abused and that other effective means will be used to by-pass the proscriptions in NIC for the safeguards on information. When all semi autos, are retroactively banned, they will probably mine the NICs system and mine the 4473s for whatever they want.

Easier to just rely on the usual sources - informants and physical information. Monitor gun ranges for "fast shooting". Turn on a camera. Is it semi-auto? Do a facial recognition. Send the wagon to their house.

Divorces with angry spouses. Jilted lovers. Business partners who feel cheated. Everyone has a tale to tell. Custody hearings are a mine field of vices and reasons for "unsuitability".

Biggest source of information? Our own big mouths. Show of hands? How many people take photos of their items and post 'em online? Take a photo on their smart phone? Someone else takes a photo and posts it?

How many of us can shoot all by our lonesome? If not, you got witnesses.

[GeneCC]

President Trump also just signed the bump stock ban. No grandfathering, no compensation, you are felon virtually overnight. Again, the law trashes the 2A and the 5A. Enforcement will involve trashing 1A and 4A (speaking out against it, fighting it in court, or encouraging or promising non-compliance) will be used as a basis to actually raid, seize and prosecute. I anticipate that the Bump Stock Ban with be the proving ground for establishing the framework of law enforcement and prosecutorial infrastructure for the coming ban on semi auto rifles and handguns.

Most of the tools are already there. We already have a BATFE that has acted often in defiance of Constitutional protections and has shown a demonstrated willingness and eagerness to be part of the gun ban agenda (Fast and Furious comes to mind) as well as other cases of armed searches and seizures and harassment of legitimate gun dealers over questionable technical violations. The storm troopers are in place, it will be just a matter of hiring more of them. The FBI and the Justice Department is totally Deep State/Socialist and filled to overflowing with political hires and anti-2A zealots who will happily prosecute, manufacture evidence etc. (They have done it already to the Bundy's and others out west). The Federal Judiciary is as unjust and partisan as them come, despite Chief Justice Robert's lies and dissembling about it.

Feds will start by demanding manufacturing/sales records, retail sales records and credit card information. If they even bother to get warrants for this, they will be rubber stamped by Federal Judges. Look what they have done to the President under a FISA law that laughably claims to require higher standards. They will scruple less over the rights of a perceived gun nut. The media will lock step lie, deceive and promote the whole agenda.

No one will object to any of this, after all it's only bump stocks, not firearms. The infrastructure will be developed around this, the prosecutions will take place and when the time comes, they will be ready for the big confiscation.

Most likely the next target will be magazines. They're not firearms. Could be argued in Court that they're not an "arm" at all. The "Trump Precedent" could result in a real ass pain. Trump, being an authoritarian of sorts, probably shrugged and figured, "This won't cost me too many votes in Congress or in 2020."


The Bump Stocks are easy to detect. They sorta sound like automatic weapons. When I belonged to a club that allowed Full Auto firearms on the range the Police would often show up. They wanted to shoot them too!

The best part about catching someone "red handed" - you got all of the goods in one convenient location. Contraband and the owner. You have the right to remain silent.